Torque Converter and...

[Michael Caravaglia]

Hello. I have received some great assistance on this forum, so I'm hopeful someone can direct me further. I'm a total novice!

I learned (from this forum) that my Torque Converter is shot. I've been able to diagnose and confirm that it is indeed so. Yesterday, I split the tractor to begin removal of the torque converter, but it appears my issues are deeper than I'd hoped.

I have attached two, annotated, images that show the issue(s) and I also have some questions noted on these images. If there is anyone that can look at these images and respond to my questions, I would be most grateful.

Thanks, in advance, to those that can advise me. I hope I can return the favor someday!

 

[Tinkerer]

No Ball bearings Mike.
The flywheel bolts are sheared off.
Hopefull there is no damage to the crankshaft. Here is a link to the parts list, maybe. I just randomly looked at 555A. Not sure what you have.
https://partstore.agriculture.newho...-search.html#epc::mr58290ar361297bi1152429-14

 

[Michael Caravaglia]

Sorry. I omitted that it's a 1983 Ford555. I'm a bit confused. When I split the tractor, should the fly wheel and torque converter remained with the front of the tractor and the engine? In other words the flywheel bolts to the front of the engine from the backside? My shop manual shows none of the details to help me.

 

[mitch504]

Yep, the thing you are talking about disconnecting from the driveshaft is the end of the crankshaft. The "ball bearings" are broken bolts, worn round from rubbing on the flywheel.

If you find a GOOD repair welder, he can probably build up those bolts and back them out. If so, a new flywheel and you are back in business.

 

[Michael Caravaglia]

I'm looking at it now. Makes sense now. Thanks so very much!

 

[jimg984]

broken flywheel bolts has left you with out drive to TC/ Transmission like Mitch said replace bolts and flywheel, and maybe good to go

 

[Delmer]

you may be able to pick that flywheel/torque converter up and slide it right off the end of the transmission input shaft, then remove the bolts holding them together, then you'll find the heads of your broken bolts somewhere. Special bolts obviously, get them from a dealer, etc.

The broken bolts might be easy or NOT. The welding trick is almost the only way to go about this one, you absolutely do not want to drill off center and mess up the threads in the crankshaft. It is not hard to weld up a broken bolt and remove it, but you do NOT want to learn on this crankshaft, get somebody who knows exactly what they're doing. Even if you have to pay somebody a few hundred $$$ it will be worth it.

 

[Michael Caravaglia]

Thank you all for responding. My concern is the bolts are sheared off flush and a few even below the surface. I'm not sure if/how the welding technique will work, but I will definitely look into it.

 

[Tinkerer]

This is not a job for an amateur.
It is time to get someone that knows how to get the bolts out.
One little screw up with a welder and it may create a bolt welded to the crankshaft. Then you are royally screwed.
Those bolts may be able to be taken out with a cold chisel. A very narrow one.
I have done many of them with good results. Although not in a crankshaft.
One of the problems with the bolts that sheared below the surface is that the exposed threads may be damaged.

 

[jimg984]

image the sheared off bolt sticking out the most,, putting a larger size nut over it and the welding inside the nut to the sheared off bolt,, as mentioned before please let a expert do it..... don't let someone try and mess it up for the expert,, it works if done right

 

[JL Sargent]

I have had success with getting these type broken bolts out of crankshafts using picks as Delmer suggested. The idea is that the tension was released when the bolt head sheared off making removal possible with picks. I applied a generous amount of penetrating fluid and with sharp picks I made from chainsaw files, I was able to eventually work all bolts from the crank. Once you get one to move either way, you can usually get it out.

 

[joe--h]

Torque convertor is probably ok, it it's not turning you're not moving. Small sharp punch to get those bolts out, with a tiny hammer to start. Not a big beater, easy does it.
Joe H

 

[doghead]

You also have a dowel pin sheared off and stuck in the flywheel, and missing from the crankshaft hub(the small odd hole).

The correct typical installation order is, to install the torque converter into the transmission. The flywheel is installed on the crankshaft. Then the two halves of the tractor get put together and then you install the 8 bolts that attach the flywheel to the torque converter though the starter hole. Then install the starter.

At this point, your crankshaft hub and or flywheel may have surface damage that with cause runout on the flywheel(and attached converter) when assembled.

After getting the broken bolts out of the crank hub, you need to mount the flywheel up and use a dial indicator to see if the runout is acceptable.

I agree with the others that welding to the broken bolts to remove them may be the best option. Although with great care(using a homemade jig), drilling them with a small diameter bit centered, they may come out easily with an easy out.

Not familiar with the model tractor you have but, if your torque converter drives an oil pump like most automatic transmissions, be sure to be very careful when inserting the converter into the transmission and be sure the pump drive is engage correctly. Do not force it in. It should go in and out easily by hand. Needing to rotate also to get the pump drive tangs engaged.

 

[doghead]

FWIW, you should have continued your original thread about this(not start a new one).

At least, post a link to your original thread for the whole story. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/ford-555-1983-flywheel-ring-gear.79552/#post-845291

And always state what model you have in the title!

And your your torque converter is most likely fine.

 

[mitch504]

Hey, 2 bits of good news on this story:

Tinkerer and I were basically right in our original diagnosis, the older Fords had a habit of breaking the center out of the flywheel from people shifting from forward to reverse with it revved up. That caused this same effect.

The other good thing is that a flywheel is cheaper than a torque converter.

A good welder will be able to remove those bolts easily. You can try a pick or a punch, but be careful you don't scar up the threads in the hole and make it hard for him.

Drilling them would be very difficult and dangerous, they are VERY hard bolts, or if they are not, that was your problem. I say dangerous because if your drill bit gets off a little, you are going to spend thousands on an engine rebuild.

Also, I would replace the flywheel with new because with some wear in the holes, you will be doing this again soon.

Good luck,
Mitch

 

[Tugger2]

I agree with using picks or a small cold chisel first,but when that fails,I have welded a flat washer to the boken bolt first , a size smaller than the broken bolt,centered, and clamped or held firm . that gives you a good start to the weld and keeps you clear of the threads. Next ,weld the nut to the broken bolt,on bigger bolts you can weld a bit around the outside of the nut to washer as well as inside. Let it cool then work it back and forth gently and out they come.80% success on the first try, some take a couple of shots , but the washer saves your surface and the threads.

 

[Swetz]

My experience with the given problem has been similar...I want to add one thing...when things do not work out right away, take a break, get your cool than set back to it. I have seen many guys destroy things because they lost their cool and did things that were questionable. Keep the thought that you will take your time and it will all come together, and it will!

One other thing I have seen work is a punch mark (a good one) in the center of the bolt, then a left handed drill. You are not trying to drill the bolt out. You are trying to spin the bolt out. As previously mentioned, once a bolt snaps, the pressure is gone and all that remains is the resistance of the threads. So, unless it was cross threaded in the beginning, or the threads got buggered (technical term) they should come out.

 

[Tinkerer]

Michael ; For me, welding on the crankshaft is a last resort situation on those recessed bolts. Try all the other ways suggested and I am sure an experienced mechanic or machinist will get them out.
I would try turning them in a 1/4 turn just to try and get them freed up. Lots of PB Blaster too.
If you look closely at those recessed bolts are the crankshaft threads damaged ??

 

[Michael Caravaglia]

Hard to tell about the condition of the threads, but I believe they are ok.

Today I used a 1/4" left-handed bit and carefully drilled a hole in the center of one of these bolts. It took quite a while, but I got in about 1/2 inch. The hole is nicely centered, and I didn't hit the sides at all, so the threads should be undamaged.

I'm not sure how far these bolts go into the crankshaft, so I don't know how deep I'd have to go to get all the way through the bolt (anyone know?). I then tried to use a bolt remover to back it out, but no success. The bolt remover actually started to twist, so I stopped before it snapped. The bolts must be in there pretty tight.

I have a professional welder coming to visit me tomorrow to take a look at this and see what he can do. I'll update this post and let y'all know what happened.

Now that I have a clean hole in the bolt, I was wondering if I could use a left-handed tap to thread the hole and then insert a left-hand bolt until it bottoms out and then try to back it out. Has anyone ever done this? I'm not sure if the bolts are too hard to use a die to thread it.

You guys are awesome. Thanks so much for the information. Very helpful.

 

[Michael Caravaglia]

FWIW, you should have continued your original thread about this(not start a new one).

At least, post a link to your original thread for the whole story. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/ford-555-1983-flywheel-ring-gear.79552/#post-845291

And always state what model you have in the title!

And your your torque converter is most likely fine.

I felt that it was a new topic, so I created a new thread. If that was incorrect, I do apologize.