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Torgue Converter slipping in high gears?

B

br2an

Active Member
Hi Everyone,

2001 JCB 214 Series 3 with 5000 hrs showing.

While travelling on paved road yesterday (first time out this year) I noticed I was losing a lot of speed on hills. The engine rpms were steady at approximately 2200 but speed was dropping drastically. Fourth is worse than third, second and first are unaffected.

To me it seems to indicate a torque converter slipping. Lots of fluid, no burnt smell.

Can anyone here familiar with JCB 214 or 3CX help me diagnose? I have it on site now where it will just be using 1st and 2nd. Btw, it still pushes well in 1st gear, no slippage noticeable.

Thanks,

Brian
 
Dutchcat

Dutchcat

Well-Known Member
TC slip usually creates a lot of heat,must be visible on your gage.


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D

Dickjr.

Senior Member
This is normal for a backhoe , when roading up hill I usually shift down to third. The torques on these will hold engine rpm to a certain level in stall. On my 416 it 2100. When I'm going up hill and it setting on 2100 and losing speed that's when I shift down.
 
B

br2an

Active Member
Dutchcat said:
TC slip usually creates a lot of heat,must be visible on your gage.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do you mean transmission temperature? The only gage it has is the engine temperature and no change there.
 
B

br2an

Active Member
Dickjr. said:
This is normal for a backhoe , when roading up hill I usually shift down to third. The torques on these will hold engine rpm to a certain level in stall. On my 416 it 2100. When I'm going up hill and it setting on 2100 and losing speed that's when I shift down.
Click to expand...

I would have thought it would be lower than 2100 but then this is my first backhoe with a hydrostatic tranny.

Can anyone tell me what the stall speed should be for 2001 JCB 214 Series 3 with turbo?
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
I would have thought it would be less than 2,100 rpm also, but what is the high idle speed? The torque converters are designed that way so you can drive into a pile of gravel and lift the bucket at high rpm, while not breaking anything with the engine spinning like that. Don't go up a hill with the torque slipping like that, downshift. Same if the torque is getting hot, downshift or operate so you're stalling it less.

Also, a torque converter is not hydrostatic, and your tranny isn't either if it has a torque converter in front of it.
 
D

Dickjr.

Senior Member
If my tach is correct it high idle no load is 2500 rpm. When it is under stall conditions the tach reads 2100 but this maybe be off a little. I never hit piles wide open , ease in and accelerate as you feel the load increase. I try not to spin the tires , it happens , but I still have the original rear tires on at 5000 hrs. They are in need of replacement soon.
 
E

El Hombre

Senior Member
I was taught a stall test was put it in gear and stand on the brakes and gas it; see how high it revs. The turbo might make the convertor like a little higher stall speed, you get more exhaust gas to spin the turbo with a higher engine speed, so that gives you more power.

I had a Dodge turbo car and stall on that was around 2100, the V6 it was 1800? By letting the turbo spin up, it just killed the 6 off the line. It would spin the tires, no contest.
 
B

br2an

Active Member
Delmer said:
I would have thought it would be less than 2,100 rpm also, but what is the high idle speed? The torque converters are designed that way so you can drive into a pile of gravel and lift the bucket at high rpm, while not breaking anything with the engine spinning like that. Don't go up a hill with the torque slipping like that, downshift. Same if the torque is getting hot, downshift or operate so you're stalling it less.

Also, a torque converter is not hydrostatic, and your tranny isn't either if it has a torque converter in front of it.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the poor choice of words, I believe it says Powershift on the side of the window.

I wonder could the clutch packs be slipping for 3rd and 4th gears? I know I really need to take it in and start trouble shooting but right now it is back in to my cabin and won't be out for a few weeks.
 
B

Billrog

Senior Member
Newer machines have lock up converters and will hold better in higher gears on hills the older machines you have to shift down to keep up the momentum. If you converters going just drive up against some thing stationary and you will not be able to spin the wheels in low gear.
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
br2an said:
I wonder could the clutch packs be slipping for 3rd and 4th gears? I know I really need to take it in and start trouble shooting
Click to expand...

It could be slipping, but there's no reason to think the clutch packs are slipping. You could check the transmission pressures if you wanted to, but I don't see anything unusual with a backhoe slowing down on hills. It sounds like the torque converter is stalling at close to the speed you'd expect. Unless you find specs otherwise.
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
A very helpful thread, why did they have to make it such a tear jerker in the end?

The throttle adjustment is critical with a torque converter stall speed very close to the max governed RPM. What is your high idle speed?
 
G

Grady

Senior Member
I don't know what the outcome of that thread was but it was a good reminder to change filters and fluids first thing when buying a used machine - at least check them good and crack the drains to check for water esp. if it's been sitting. Seems like it would be common sense but apparently not.
 
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