timberjack 460 trans problem

[HATCHEQUIP]

customer picked up his cat skidder today and dropped of a tj 460 that wont move. In neutral running it will roll if pushed or pulled put it in any gear and it will lock up the tires like its in 2 gears at the same time. Going to look at it tomorrow. Thinking electrical. this is the 2nd skidder Ive ever worked on his cat being the first. Any ideas????

 

[theironoracle]

hatch, what series is it? as you can see from my thread "all in a days (or two) work pictures" I have spent some time in timberjacks. If you haven't figured it out yet the cab tilts to the right so you can easily work on the transmission. If this has the little electrical joy stick to control the transmission there are solenoids on the left side of trans. These solenoids often have problems. does it roll when the park brake is in park? it sounds like this is what your saying! the park brake (multi-disc spring applied pressure released) is the chunk of stuff on top of trans near the back where usually the winch drive shaft comes out of. I'm guessing someone has done some "wiring" maybe someone crossed a couple of the two wire weatherpacks connectors.......TIO

 

[theironoracle]

hatch, page 9 post #121. these hanging off the back is the park brake. you can see the solenoids there above and forward of the mount on the left hand side.....TIO

 

[partsandservice]

Hatch, like TIO asked is this timberjack or what I call a johnjack . The 460-460c will be an original timberjack, and the 460d will be a john deere with timberjack badging, they are completely different machines. I can help with either one and have service manuals for both. The original timberjack 460 will have a cummins engine. I could identify with a picture.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

before

after

had sometime this evening and went out and cranked it up, looked down by the seat and thought that looks like a lot of papers dug it out and its a loose leaf service manual and alot better shape parts book. tried a few things then took all the pages back to shop and started smoothing them out and cutting all the loose binder edges off and punched in new holes and put in new notebook after putting them back in order, now I have soemthing to read this weekend the machine is a straight timberjack 460 ser#985093 with a cummins engine and monitor type dash and yes it looks like their are some codes when you mash 1 of the dash buttons. the screen by the joystick shifter seems to show correctly when its shifted but when you crank the engine its instantly under a load and no movement, shifting, shuttering even while shifting just nothing like the trans is siezed and your stalling the torque, rev it up and nothing but black smoke. wasnt here when they unloaded it but they say in neutral it will role but if you put it in gear it wont roll just slide the tires.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

TIO and PAS sound like anything yall have run into

 

[partsandservice]

As you know diagnosis is difficult from a distance, but it seems there may be two or more problems. The hydraulic may be stuck on stroke, with trans in neutral move the boom up and down and see if the load releases with a function is in motion. The clutch pack for the winch is located in the trans' so winch shaft should not be turning unless winch is engaged. Only two clutches should be engaged in any given gear except one gear which will only have one engaged, will have to look that up because I can't remember which gear has the single clutch engagement . It is a Clark 32000 transmission . The shift solonoids are on the left side(sitting in seat) of torque convertor housing. Marking and unplugging all solonoids will eliminate two many clutches engaged electronically. Also behind the panel under the shifter is a limp home toggle switch, unplug the shifter and plug in to toggle switch this will give you forward and reverse in one gear. With key switch off (shifter plugged back in )move shifter into reverse and pull to you and hold then turn key switch on, the shifter will then run through a diagnostic sequence, o for open circuit , s for short and g for good in each gear. Probably not related , but after turning park brake switch off it is nesesary to apply service brake to release park brake. And there is the possibility of mechanical failure internally. Maybe this will get headed in the right direction.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

10/4 will check

 

[theironoracle]

Partsandservice, you know way more about these than I do! You are now my go to guy when I have problems with these. I had no idea about the limp home mode. Hopefully for the customer it's not a trans failure. I haven't been part of an r&r and rebuild that wasn't close to $20k! ....TIO

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Well what I thought was a service manual was a operators manual "didn't really pay any attention when I was putting it all back together last night" sat down this morning and started reading thru it and Ill say this, this is probably the best operators manual ive seen has schematics and all, tells about that limp home that PAS told me about

 

[partsandservice]

Well, I learned it the hard way. This was timberjack country back in the day.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Best school in the world, hard knocks

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

got the cab up this morning with the IMT and pulled it over to the wash rack after not being able to see the trans for all the dirt, grease and assorted pieces of pine trees

now this is more like it

 

[partsandservice]

Any progress on that Jack?

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

No P.A.S. I hope to get on it this week we just had some more important trans. jobs and other things that keep getting ahead of it.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Labeled and disconnected trans shift solenoids and cranked, engine still under load and no movement. pulled drive shaft to winch cranked and no load on engine now, hooked shift solenoids back up and trans works the little bit I tried it with the cab tilted over. Question does that shaft turn all the time with clutch pack in winch doing the aplying or does it have the clutch pack in the back snout of the trans. thats not releasing.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Tio Pas ?

 

[old-iron-habit]

All log skidder winches that I have ever seen have the clutch and brake in the winch. Many turn full time of the tranny or transfer. Some have an in or out lever like a PTO. Bet the winch pinion bearing are out and locked it up. Common on grapple skidders because the winch oil level never gets checked because it doesn't get used. I take the winch drive lines off in the winter for more power to the ground.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

That's what Im used to on dozers and other things but didn't know on this as its got what I think is a clutch pack on the back of tranny and I was reading on another site somewhere that a fellow had a similar problem and had to tear the trans down to fix or just run it without the shaft

 

[partsandservice]

On the 460 the clutch for winch is in the transmission. The winch prop shaft should only turn when the winch is engaged to winch in. Trans pressure should be around 270 psi. The trans pump is mounted to the back of the torque convertor housing in the middle. The two hoses on trans pump are for the trans charged filter, the pressure regulator is sandwiched between the pump and torque housing. Trans pump draws suction internally with a pickup screen made to the drain plug on the side bottom of trans housing.