Thunderbird Yarders, Loaders, and Etc from the Murray's in Eugene Oregon

[furpo]

Ba141-355

Im guessing the B series is also refered to as the TY45

 

[Kiwi Logger]

Birthday time , mid last year we rebuilt the 8v92 and 6 speed allison trans, now time for new chains , sprockets etc, bit of a cab refurb pull some drums out and tighten things up along with some work on the boom as the swivel where the guys go through when you swing was all chewed out. Great little machine still going strong.

 

[furpo]

Good info there re PSY200 serial # and MFG date, cheers Kiwi Logger.

Did you have any luck getting hold of the ower of the machine getting wreaked? There is an addition machine for sale I understand up your neck of the woods.

 

[Kiwi Logger]

Yea that machine has been moved out of town, have been looking at one for parts in the US though.

 

[Kiwi Logger]

Up on one of our jobs today so took a few picks of one of our TTY70 jobs.

 

[furpo]

Yea that machine has been moved out of town, have been looking at one for parts in the US though.

10525 was for tender in the states. It is on rubber and rolled over after the road collapsed. I have the details on my other computer. I found it by googling PSY200

 

[Big Creek]

There is a PSY 200 in a pile of parts In Knappa, Oregon. It was logging in the Spruce Run/Salmonberry area. I heard It was reaching Accross the Nehalem river and the guy line parted under full power. It kept winding and pulled itself right to the edge of the bluff before it stopped. It was brought back to Knappa in parts and still sits in the blackberrys. I have recent pictures to post when my probation is over.

 

[Contract Logger]

There is a PSY 200 in a pile of parts In Knappa, Oregon. It was logging in the Spruce Run/Salmonberry area. I heard It was reaching Accross the Nehalem river and the guy line parted under full power. It kept winding and pulled itself right to the edge of the bluff before it stopped. It was brought back to Knappa in parts and still sits in the blackberrys. I have recent pictures to post when my probation is over.

I drove up there the morning after it went- John B called me the day it happened. I'd better post my 'before' and 'during' pics here before you post the 'bones'. I rented him an 071 Madill to finish that job, and he ended up buying a TSY-255 out of Alaska and it worked out good for him in the end, but some stressful days there for a couple weeks!

That's been 5 or 6 years ago now and I thought that machine went for scrap a long time ago......shocked its still there.

I'll start scanning 'the scene of the crash' pics right now. Boy, have I ever mentioned how I hate scanning?

The Madill 071 got away from the operator and went over the bank on its way to the job....so for 2 days we had 2 yarders off the road/out of commission on that *%*^#@%&*$ -ing mountain up there. Oh well, what do you do..... I have alot of pics of the 071 over the bank too. It rained as hard as it could for the day we were pulling the Madill back up and onto the road. Took 2 Cat shovels and a D8K but we got her finally.

 

[Contract Logger]

Thunderbird PSY-200 at Quality Timber Cutting, Knappa Oregon 2004.

It appears that after much contact with this machine I only find 2 pictures in my filing cabinet of it intact and working.....Weird. I have more pics and they are not in thier proper file.....the usual for me I guess.

John bought this machine at a Ross Corporation auction in Eugene in the later 90's. All the yarders in that auction got the Thunderbird tan paint- Washingtons, Skagits, Bergers, all of them came out tan. The Washington 137W painted tan (down under and seen often in the Washington forum) went through this same auction.

I took these two pics South of Cannon Beach and North of Manzanita in 2004.

Right up there high on the rocks- I think Onion Peak is what they call that area.

For a few years my pictures were printed on matte finish paper -looks great in real life but doesnt scann too good- white specs all over the darker areas.

 

[Contract Logger]

The scene of the accident.

I dont know what happened. I wasn't there and speculation is both unfair and a waste of everyone's time. They were hanging way way out but the wood was small and nothing was going on that was in violation of the law.

I dont remember how far from the landing to the tailhold but they were hanging over the river and an active County Road anyway. I would guess 3,500 feet- its just a guess. Yarding off a steep slope right under the landing, small junky wood (it was a re-hab sale) and short yarding- only 1,000 to 1,200 feet at most.

When she pulled loose the machine stood up on one corner track and the pressure broke all the rotek bolts. Upper and lower were separated and fell away from each other.

By the time I got up there the undercarriage had been pulled off the landing and out of the way.

Here is the yarder as I saw it. No injuries, only bruised pride thankfully.

 

[Contract Logger]

The view from the top!

I took this pic looking off the landing and over the bank. You can see the little timber laying on the ground and the River and Road below. They were hanging all the way across the canyon an hooked to an old-growth stump high on the other side.

Not that big a deal and a nice office view on a sunny day for sure!

 

[Big Creek]

Ok that explains how they got the undercarage free, the rotec broke.It would have been tough on its side. I remember when they hauled her in. Our shop is right accross the road and we walked over for a look. Given todays scrap prices and Johns situation, the last few years have been tough, I'm surprised the scrappers haven't taken her. I think I was doing some road work at Spruce Run right after because I remember looking down the canyon,picturing the sceen, and thinking what a ride if she hadn't stopped at the edge. This one should go into "They walked away"

 

[Contract Logger]

I logged on my own for various landowners and bought quite a bit of my own wood too- State Timber Sales and salvage sales- whatever and wherever. In 1998 I could see the writing on the wall- Weyerhaeauser closed the Vail Sort Yard - one of my real steady cash-cows for the shovels and trucks. The Eniviro-nutjobs living in the area finally got the Thurston County permit people to cave and not renew the Vail permits over noise and dust issues. The Weyerhaeuser Snoqualmie and White-River land holdings were sold off in 2000 and we were forced to make a decision: stay and work for less or do something else. Money was way too tight to begin with as the timber has alot of value and the loggers are't getting thier fair share of it anymore.
Too make matters worse the loggers cut each other's prices constantly and the debt-to-income ratio for a logging side borders on insane. In the business world there are an awful lot of thing a fellow can invest a million dollars in and see a significant and reliable return on his investment. In timber you still can, but 'Contract Logging'- no way. The financial exposure in terms of accident, market, unreliable employees, landowner trust issues is just to much to high. And company trucks are a must for smooth/reliable operation- but they multiply that exposure exponentially. One driver screw-up can cost a man everything he owns in about 60 seconds.
I realized that each yarder side was worth a million or so, a decent truck fleet will be a couple million more (an operation ideally uses a 50/50 split of owned trucks and contractor trucks).
None of this works without quality reliable people- and those are getting harder and harder to find. The day will come when the loggers cannot crew the sides adequately.
In early 2001 we quit the contracting business completely and did nothing for a year- I actually drove truck and ran equiment for friends, and still had some of my own stuff rented out or just parked.
In 2002 I entered a marketing gig with Madill at Kalama and had a great time with all that. Mant of the 'Factory Photos' you see on the Madill sales brochures were taken by me in that position! It was alot of fun and I met many great loggers and was able to understand thier problems and challenges in a way that the average machinery salespeople couldn't- so I had a real advantage and sold/resold alot of Madill and Thunderbird equipment there for a few years......a great gig indeed.
I made many trips to Canada (Madill Factory) and got to see lots of BC logging and other things. Those were great in my life- with long-lasting friendships developed.
By 2005, Madill 'management' was looking for ways too cut costs and the machinery was beginning to suffer- lighter steel, etc- I was seeing cracks and failures prematurely and in areas that didnt make any sense to me- mostly on the log loaders and one model in particular. This was trouble for me and the Kalama operations man realized that I was becoming trouble for him.....I wont promote something I know to be flawed- I call it 'integrity'- he called it something different. I always felt that I worked for the loggers- and my job was to take these problems/concerns back to the factory people. My supervisor felt I did NOT work for the logger and that I should just go along with the process of 'lightening up some areas of these machines'. We agreed to disagree and I left Madill in 2005. I relaxed in Washington for one year and made the decision to come to Alaska and I haven't regretted this for one second!

Madill collapsd months after my departure. What a shame- cost-cutting in all the wrong places. Mismanagment, unwillingness to listen to the customer, on and on....

John B - of Quality Timber Cutting - is one of the many great people I met in my days at Madill and he is a good man and good logger. There are lots of great and unsung loggers on the West Coast who get up every day and fight the good fight- against landowners, unreliable employees, rising fuel and insurance prices, and on and on.

My money today is doing different things and I am once again seeing the returns on investment without dealing with employees who are late, drunk, or just dont show up.
To be completely honest: in my younger years I too was late, drunk, and sometimes I didnt even show up. I cost people money and production and got fired. We all did, after all, didn't we? People just like me are the reason I gave up so many years later. The irony of life is half the fun!

Lots of people dont like me still. Doesn't matter- there are also an awful lot of people I dont like either. One thing is sure- It takes all kinds to make the world go round' !

I started collecting logging pictures in the 70's and started taking my own in the 80's. I took alot and missed alot of good photo-ops too! I'll continue to share on this forum my pictures but I am deveoping a website now similar to 'hankstruckpictures' just for logging, loggers, and etc. I have involved a few people and it should be really something when we get done. I dont see the point of all my pics if I cant share them with you guys. I am getting material sent to me from all over and some of the stuff coming in is amazing!

More details to come on that later.

 

[Contract Logger]

Thunderbird PSY-200 Sales Brochure Cover

I have 2 different PSY-200 brochures and this is the better of the 2. The other is older, same contents but a bad black/white pic on the cover.

This is the newer one (1980/81-ish, just guessing) featuring the PSY-200 in blue and white with the Chapman undercarriage.

Interesting to note- the machine has a 'Bendix - Skagit Corporation' sicker on it. Always been there- I just noticed it today however.......

These machines were originally built by Pierce-Pacific (yes, the Pierce Boom/Grapple people) and the 'P' in PSY was for 'Pierce Swing Yarder' before the Murray's took over. Makes me wonder if Pierce sold this to Skagit and Skagit sold it to Ross Murray......? Always more questions than answers it seems like.

Pierce also built 2 PTY-400 tower-yarders, MONSTER slackline machines with 120' telescoping towers. Both came here- to Alaska in the late 70's- one to Ketchikan Pulp Company at Ketchikan and the other to Alaska Pulp Corporation at Sitka. I saw one of these machines when Mike Walch bought it but had no camera. Mike parted it out and its gone now.

When I worked at Madill they had the PTY-400 parts books (aquired from Ross) and they disappeared while I was there. My plan was to have them copied but sadly they dissapeared and are gone. I think they were tossed by someone as I had them out and on top of a filing cabinet. Everyone denied knowing anything- seems awful fishy. Maybe they still exist (I hope) and will surface eventually. Stuff was always disappearing toward the end around there.....I took alot but always with permission.

Anyway the PTY-400's had Skagit-style tower/guyline drum assemblies and were on tracks- Caterpillar 245 complete hydraulic sideframes were used. Paint was yellow with blue trim and looked great. Yellow/Blue was the colors of the earlier PSY-200s as well.

At least 6 PSY-200's were on rubber (4-Axle Pierce Carriers- makes sense now, right?) I'll find a pic here somewhere......

 

[skadill]

I logged on my own for various landowners and bought quite a bit of my own wood too- State Timber Sales and salvage sales- whatever and wherever. In 1998 I could see the writing on the wall- Weyerhaeauser closed the Vail Sort Yard - one of my real steady cash-cows for the shovels and trucks. The Eniviro-nutjobs living in the area finally got the Thurston County permit people to cave and not renew the Vail permits over noise and dust issues. The Weyerhaeuser Snoqualmie and White-River land holdings were sold off in 2000 and we were forced to make a decision: stay and work for less or do something else. Money was way too tight to begin with as the timber has alot of value and the loggers are't getting thier fair share of it anymore.
Too make matters worse the loggers cut each other's prices constantly and the debt-to-income ratio for a logging side borders on insane. In the business world there are an awful lot of thing a fellow can invest a million dollars in and see a significant and reliable return on his investment. In timber you still can, but 'Contract Logging'- no way. The financial exposure in terms of accident, market, unreliable employees, landowner trust issues is just to much to high. And company trucks are a must for smooth/reliable operation- but they multiply that exposure exponentially. One driver screw-up can cost a man everything he owns in about 60 seconds.
I realized that each yarder side was worth a million or so, a decent truck fleet will be a couple million more (an operation ideally uses a 50/50 split of owned trucks and contractor trucks).
None of this works without quality reliable people- and those are getting harder and harder to find. The day will come when the loggers cannot crew the sides adequately.
In early 2001 we quit the contracting business completely and did nothing for a year- I actually drove truck and ran equiment for friends, and still had some of my own stuff rented out or just parked.
In 2002 I entered a marketing gig with Madill at Kalama and had a great time with all that. Mant of the 'Factory Photos' you see on the Madill sales brochures were taken by me in that position! It was alot of fun and I met many great loggers and was able to understand thier problems and challenges in a way that the average machinery salespeople couldn't- so I had a real advantage and sold/resold alot of Madill and Thunderbird equipment there for a few years......a great gig indeed.
I made many trips to Canada (Madill Factory) and got to see lots of BC logging and other things. Those were great in my life- with long-lasting friendships developed.
By 2005, Madill 'management' was looking for ways too cut costs and the machinery was beginning to suffer- lighter steel, etc- I was seeing cracks and failures prematurely and in areas that didnt make any sense to me- mostly on the log loaders and one model in particular. This was trouble for me and the Kalama operations man realized that I was becoming trouble for him.....I wont promote something I know to be flawed- I call it 'integrity'- he called it something different. I always felt that I worked for the loggers- and my job was to take these problems/concerns back to the factory people. My supervisor felt I did NOT work for the logger and that I should just go along with the process of 'lightening up some areas of these machines'. We agreed to disagree and I left Madill in 2005. I relaxed in Washington for one year and made the decision to come to Alaska and I haven't regretted this for one second!

Madill collapsd months after my departure. What a shame- cost-cutting in all the wrong places. Mismanagment, unwillingness to listen to the customer, on and on....

John B - of Quality Timber Cutting - is one of the many great people I met in my days at Madill and he is a good man and good logger. There are lots of great and unsung loggers on the West Coast who get up every day and fight the good fight- against landowners, unreliable employees, rising fuel and insurance prices, and on and on.

My money today is doing different things and I am once again seeing the returns on investment without dealing with employees who are late, drunk, or just dont show up.
To be completely honest: in my younger years I too was late, drunk, and sometimes I didnt even show up. I cost people money and production and got fired. We all did, after all, didn't we? People just like me are the reason I gave up so many years later. The irony of life is half the fun!

Lots of people dont like me still. Doesn't matter- there are also an awful lot of people I dont like either. One thing is sure- It takes all kinds to make the world go round' !

I started collecting logging pictures in the 70's and started taking my own in the 80's. I took alot and missed alot of good photo-ops too! I'll continue to share on this forum my pictures but I am deveoping a website now similar to 'hankstruckpictures' just for logging, loggers, and etc. I have involved a few people and it should be really something when we get done. I dont see the point of all my pics if I cant share them with you guys. I am getting material sent to me from all over and some of the stuff coming in is amazing!

More details to come on that later.

Thanks so much Contract Logger,for the human perspective and sharing these real life challenges that are as big a part of logging as the iron itself.Theres alot of people here who would love to still be in this stuff daily,but the types of issues you've been through have affected many others similarly.Your pictures are allways worth a thousand words,and this time-Your thousand words are worth more than many pictures.This is the best industry to be in, or have been involved with.A very passionate,dedicated hard working group who stay until the end.Keep up the great work,it makes a lot of peoples day! thank-you

 

[dirty4fun]

C L thanks so much for all the sharing you have done, the pictures are great and I hope they keep coming. The explaination and insight is awesome that you share, thanks so much for that, also. I have learned so much from yours and others post and sharing of pictures.

I can only hope that things can turn around, before the U S is past repair. I feel it maybe getting to that point now, though but hope I am wrong. The lumber business and the oil resourses we have that are being wasted due to a bunch of do gooders that have no idea how things really work is just plain awful.

 

[furpo]

It does not supprise me at all that the bolts broke. The PSY200 is such a stable machine on its feet that a lot of load must go through the Rotec. Interesting that it is on a Pierce tracked carrier. I know of one other machine like this.

Big Creak, if the build plate is still on the machine can you please take a photo of it for me. It should be below where the cab was on the front panel. There was one on the trackframe too.

Thanks for posting the Brochures Contract Logger. On the main pulling clutch panel there are cooling slots and it has a big air tank which seam to be later design changes. The rubber tyred machine has these too. You don't know when that brochure was printed?

 

[Big Creek]

When I took photos I was looking for the build plate but did not find one. The remains are really just a pile of scrap. The under carrage is really intact and if there is a plate on it I will look for it. It might take a week or two as I am laid up after surgery.

 

[Big Creek]

An interesting note to CL's post The View From The Top. For those who do not know the area, this is the Tillamook Burn. Probably the most famous forrest fire in history. At about 60-70 years of age it is comming ripe for harvest.A lot of logging in this area is thinning as the trees mature.This series of 3 fires had a impact similar to Mt. St. Helens. As a kid I remember miles of burnt OG stumps along Sunset Hiway Up in the Camp 18 area. When I worked for Nygaard, the Hook, Don Bruner told of doing salvage logging in the burn. I remember him telling that calk boots did not last very long on the steep rocky ground.
Spruce Run Camp Ground would be in the lower right of the photo. It was a logging camp at the time of the fire which actually survived. The fire came down one side of the canyon and jumped to the other right over the camp. The camp still has some nifty OG trees. At the east end there is a walk in camp with a row of trees separating the road from the parking area. The Forrestry boys did not know this untill I showed them. That row of trees actually hides an old steam yarder sled. Right there on the side of the road in a park. This park is easy to find. Starting at Camp 18 head twords Portland about 2-3 miles To Oney's turn right on the Spruce Run road.

 

[Big Creek]

Looking back on CL's post about the PSY200 and its tyes to Skagit and looking at photos of the Skagit GT-3 they are very similar. I can see the family heritage.