Thinking of buying Cat 963 A high hours

[crazyjncsu]

I've watched some videos of these things running, and I'm convinced I could buy this single machine to handle probably 10 different projects on my property. Anyway:

- 963 A 21z
- 16k hours
- cab
- less than 200 hours on rebuilt engine
- new exhaust pipe, turbo, hoses
- pins just turned and undercarriage 'rebuilt' ... tracks look a little tight
- described as 'excellent' condition (....)

owner has spent $12.8k over the last few years fixing it up. owner had it listed for $26k but has dropped the price significantly (says he just wants to be done with it). the guy sounded like a real nice legit guy on the phone. so if there are red flags here, I'm not seeing them. and I plan to do some reading to figure out how to check the machine over.

BUT I'm just a little uneasy about this whole category of machine being a money pit. I can handle it being thirsty. I can handle a little downtime. I'm looking to work on projects with this thing-- I don't want _it_ to be the project! is this the catch with these old crawlers? what are the chances I can get 200 worry-free hours from this thing? What besides engine and undercarriage wears with high hours? do these machines get 'loose' like excavators? Should I go down a size (953/943) and look for a newer machine and maybe spend a bit more?

Thanks!

 

[Nige]

To answer your last question first, exactly what sort of "projects" is it that you need to do..? Knowing the work involved would make it easier to recommend what size/type of machine would be best.

 

[Jonas302]

Thats not high hours as with any big iron you never know how long it will run before a big bill pops up

 

[crazyjncsu]

Projects--

- renovating 0.65acre pond (this is the biggie):
--- clearing acre or so of trees on dam and banks with stump removal
--- moving ~200yds of fill about 200ft onto back of dam
--- moving who knows how much pond muck (200yds?) various places probably 200ft away
--- expanding 0.15 acres 6 feet deep
--- grading dam and banks ... roughly
- clearing and cutting for driveway 1/4 mile
- digging basement
- general clearing, but property is only 10acres, so nothing crazy
- demolishing and burying and few outbuildings (I have many more)

I think going down to a smaller machine would be fine productivity-wise. At the hours/etc I'm looking at the 963s, 953s, and 943s (rare) seem to be priced about the same. For something newer the prices seem to diverge a lot between the models. That's why if I'm planning on spending 20k-30k I'd likely be looking at a 953.

And the other equipment option seems to be a dozer, excavator, and site dump truck. I'm not sure how I'd get away with anything less than all three and gain any efficiency over just the loader. I suppose this combination would probably be twice (at least) as productive, but I'd probably need my dad to help me run so I could be running at least two at a time. And it would be much more expensive even factoring fuel. And I've have more old stuff to break down.

I can absorb the bills ... and scrap the thing if it gets too nasty ... I would just would like to feel like the odds are in my favor of not getting ones that are disproportional to the value I'm getting out of the machine. So say I spend $15k on the machine and plan on $5k for repairs to run it 500hours. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[crazyjncsu]

Or really more likely run it 100-200 hours instead of the 500 above. (can you edit posts here?)

 

[Bob/Ont]

Your best way to check it out would be to work it good for a morning. If the HPCU, a very spendy repair, is in trouble it will over heat and vent out(stop moving until shifting through park). If the owner will let you work it you are safe, if not there is a lot you may miss on the Drive Train.
Later Bob

 

[ippielb]

Take an oil sample on the hydrostatic. That's the one you should be worried about, if all comes back good, then you're laughing. Think of the cost it would be to bring someone in to do it. Then you have nothing to show for it, if you want to buy it, use it, hopefully not total it. Then you can sell the machine after your done.

 

[buckfever]

Have you looked at any 955's? I'm sure others on here would disagree but I'm just not a fan of high hour older hydrastat machines. A 955 would do everything you are looking for less money at purchase and a lot cheaper to repair if something in the transmission went south. In my opinion the only thing your gaining with a 963 is speed. If your willing to take a little longer to get the job done a 955 might be something to look at.

 

[crazyjncsu]

The guy sold it the day before I was going to look at it.

However, I'm still in the market for this type of machine, so all information here was very useful!

My ideal machine is probably an early 1990s 953B LGP with cab and ~4000 hours. I'm seeing these for high $20k's, and I'm looking for one cheaper than that. But either a 953 or 963 in good shape with >=20" tracks would do it.

Cab or no cab? My feelings are that a cab just protects the operators station a lot better than just the open ROPS ... mainly just from the weather. Is this a valid consideration?

I just hear a lot of good things about 953/963s with regard to operation/productivity as opposed to the older models.

 

[Welder Dave]

I don't think you'll find an older 2yd+ track loader with only 4000 hours. If you did find one, the price is likely to be a lot higher than your budget. You might find something like a 931B/C with lower hours but most people don't buy a 2yd+ machine to sit around. Early 953's needed more frequent engine overhauls and if a hydrostat goes out, it is $$$$.

 

[Nige]

IMHO the trade-off in this particular case is between machine speed and cost of repair. A 953 of any vintage will be far faster and move more dirt in a given time than a 955, but if anything in the hydrostatic system lets go you are talking megabucks PLUS a lack of people who really know how to fix them. Here on HEF I can only think of 2 or 3 of the regular posters who over time have given me enough confidence that they could be trusted to correctly rebuild a hydrostat. On the other hand a 955 will be a slow plodder, do less work in a given time, but as proved by any number of owners on HEF, can be fixed cheaply with no more than a decent set of wrenches.

If the OP is planning to fix the machine himself I'd go with something more amenable to being fixed right from the off.

 

[TCat]

The guy sold it the day before I was going to look at it.

However, I'm still in the market for this type of machine, so all information here was very useful!

My ideal machine is probably an early 1990s 953B LGP with cab and ~4000 hours. I'm seeing these for high $20k's, and I'm looking for one cheaper than that. But either a 953 or 963 in good shape with >=20" tracks would do it.

Cab or no cab? My feelings are that a cab just protects the operators station a lot better than just the open ROPS ... mainly just from the weather. Is this a valid consideration?

I just hear a lot of good things about 953/963s with regard to operation/productivity as opposed to the older models.

With regard to the cab vs open ROPS, one thing to think about for the use you intend, is the possibility of breaking the glass when pushing down trees and pushing trees around that you have already knocked down. I have a mid 80's 953 and had the windshield blown out of the frame and into my lap while clearing a road on top of the mountain at my camp. A small tree (only about 4 inches in diameter) that was was mixed in with some other brush that i was pushing got caught between two trees that were still standing and popped up over the bucket and hit the windshield. At $500 to $700 for a replacement, I don't have a windshield anymore, especially in light of the fact that on any given day some vandal could come and break the rest of the glass out of the thing while I'm not there. Some sort of limb risers or guard would have helped, but my machine doesn't have those, at least not yet.

 

[crazyjncsu]

Thanks for the advice guys!

I do think open rops is more suitable after hearing about the glass. Several I have seen were missing glass ... And I'm sure mine would be shortly.

Here's one I think I'm getting: 953A, 11k hours, 100 hours on reman engine, UC looks good

I took advice, and I ran it around as hard as I could for quite a while, and it seemed really strong. No indications of transmission issues. It was a little muddy, but it would dig hard and tracks would spin when I buried it. Hydraulics very strong.

https://vimeo.com/129852442

The muffler is shot, but those are cheap.

My cousin pointed out (from listening to the video) that the engine has a louder knocking/clicking/noise than usual. Does it sound like an exhaust leak? Due to the muffler? Or something worth investigating?

 

[Bob/Ont]

Could be and get on that muffler leak right away. If the flex pipe up to the muffler is leaking the exh will be blown through the rad and HPCU oil cooler heating the oil.
Later Bob

 

[DMiller]

As I listened to the audio in the vids I heard what I consider as fuel noise not so much a hard part knock, could be a poor nozzle or a pump injector assembly starting to go down, could take a long time as my old Allis has been doing that for three years now. Could also be a effect of ULSD fuel, poor burn old engines do not accommodate it very well.

Oh and contrary to beliefs of others, the fuel we get that has red dye in it is not high sulfur, it is the same fuel as highway use just dye added when they fill your holding tank. I have delivered the stuff and have been with the MFA delivery guy when he fill the tanks around the farm, same tanker fills highway clear fuel and off highway dyed fuel.

 

[BCOWANWHEELS]

I,d repair the exhaust problen 1st then before doing anything else find where the noise is comming from asap. I would not work it for sure till its fixed. As a last resort let cat diagnose the problem. With recient engine work done its hard telling what the problem is but running it could result in big $$$$$$$$$

 

[crazyjncsu]

I have the loader now. It turns out the muffler is actually fine. The rusted out part is the muffler heat shield (you can see in video), and I've ordered a replacement. I checked the flex hoses and they seem fine also.

The rain cap on the muffler has disintegrated. That seems potentially bad. Water in the turbo? Would it have made it into the exhaust manifold? I've ordered a new rain cap.

I need an entirely new seat assembly.

The engine is a reman from 2013 with 100 hours. It starts right up on the first crank. The oil looks good.

I'm going to try to find a mechanic to look at it in Raleigh, NC. I was planning on dropping by a couple of construction sites with old equipment and asking for a referral.

Here is a video of the engine noises:
https://vimeo.com/130882861

I'm wondering what's normal vs abnormal. The noise it makes right when it revs is the same noise it makes when it goes under load. Is this the noise I need to be worried about? It really seems like it's coming from the exhaust manifold area, but I couldn't feel any exhaust coming out anywhere. It looks easy to pull the turbo and exhaust manifold if I determine that to be the issue. Or does everything sound fine?

And the little tube to this was severed. And the electrical connections to it were disconnected. Any idea what this is?:


Thanks!

 

[Bob/Ont]

The starting fluid tube is broken. For noise check the fan belts, fan is big and tend to slip when engine changes speed.
Later Bob

 

[rmllarue91]

I second Bob on Fan. its also I good idea to loosen fan belts and check play in fan bearings they sure make a mess if they come apart

 

[crazyjncsu]

Did you guys watch the video? The sound I'm concerned about is the "throaty" sound as the engine is reved up starting at 0:12 in the video. Or is there a different sound at another part of the video I need to be worried about?

I will play with the fan belts, but I need to know what I'm aiming for!

And I guess I'll just label and leave that starting fluid disconnected. I'm guessing it's supposed to be actuated when I depress the button next to the ignition switch. I don't think I'll need it for a while.