Spud_Monkey
Senior Member
Wait for when the notice comes in of having to pay the electric company for line maintenance since they aren't getting enough revenue since so many jumped on solar.
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There's no making me happy - this has nothing to do with machinery.
- Thread starter wlhequipment
- Start date
skyking1
Senior Member
can you get the rates you are paying and the solar payback numbers, please?
DMiller
Senior Member
Current metering at least here is retail into your usage, wholesale back out so if do manage to generate same out as in only gonna see 1/2 of money return, our rates here are right at .07 wholesale and .15-.17 retail. The other component of the equation that I have heard other states grid owners are doing is charging Line and Equipment fees for that wholesale output, another knock in the return. Next up is absolutely NO Negative figure as to Use vs Generate, gets to zero will not pass Go, the Utilities will not ever accept paying more for net out meter than consumed meter.
HarleyHappy
Senior Member
Let’s face it, we are at the electric companies mercy.
My wife joined some board that locked our KW cost in at 13 cents but then Eversouce just doubled our rates and said this June they are going to double them again.
The solar idea works but they are doubling their line charges, so nothing to do with KW rates. Again, we will see in November where we are at, for the future.
No need to get political but elections matter.
If we get this green idea in check, we can proceed with our head and our heart, till then, keep your powder dry.
My wife joined some board that locked our KW cost in at 13 cents but then Eversouce just doubled our rates and said this June they are going to double them again.
The solar idea works but they are doubling their line charges, so nothing to do with KW rates. Again, we will see in November where we are at, for the future.
No need to get political but elections matter.
If we get this green idea in check, we can proceed with our head and our heart, till then, keep your powder dry.
skyking1
Senior Member
ours is 1 to 1.
you bank until March 1 and the meter resets. If you made excess of your needs and have a $0 bill, you lose the excess at march 1 and it starts over.
My plan is to gather at least 6 months of usage data once we move in, and make an informed decision.
You can't just look at the rates and dollars and do a simple division.
If it is $12K, for example, you need to put that $12K into theoretical investments and look at the opportunity cost too. It is not just $12K.
you bank until March 1 and the meter resets. If you made excess of your needs and have a $0 bill, you lose the excess at march 1 and it starts over.
My plan is to gather at least 6 months of usage data once we move in, and make an informed decision.
You can't just look at the rates and dollars and do a simple division.
If it is $12K, for example, you need to put that $12K into theoretical investments and look at the opportunity cost too. It is not just $12K.
skyking1
Senior Member
To flesh that out, take 12000 and put it in a compounding interest calculator.
12K + 5% will be ~20K in 10 years. This skews that payoff.
The only big variable is the KWH rate and what it does. I have no crystal ball for that.
12K + 5% will be ~20K in 10 years. This skews that payoff.
The only big variable is the KWH rate and what it does. I have no crystal ball for that.
DMiller
Senior Member
With the closing of ‘fossil’ stations watch KW costs to climb as suppliers provide to distributing utilities or distributing companies pull it out of Their shorts to build stations of some type to supply their own again. The regional supplying plants will define Supply/Demand, it will come down to those clients willing to pay the price where the ones that won’t or will not accept lock in contracts will get switched Off.
We are about to see that full on here. My old employment facility made 1190-1200mw/hr relatively steady state, the company has three other major facilities 1100mw at Rush Island, 880mw at Sioux, 2300 at Labadie then sporadic CNG Combustion Turbine sites. Rush to close this year, Labadie 3&4 early next year, Sioux as their ash storage ponds top out and they run out of disposal room. So sometime in next 2-3 years losing roughly 3100mw supply where peak demand in Summer is over 10,000-12,000. Even with energy savings equipment, supplemental systems adds and large consumer mechanisms closing that is not decreasing. Their plan is to buy open market where again, HOWEVER, every state surrounding MO is in same concerning shape. IL retired over 5000mw over last two years, KS some 2500, AR shuttered 2000 and TN/KY closer to 6000. So far IA and NE are holding their own.
Our kwh price is as noted relative to demand periods of time $.15- .17kwh, that is noted may cross $.20 by June and next year no one has a clue.
No new plants being constructed CTG or Nuke or CNG Boiler. Wind and solar cannot be scaled as big as are to lose realistically.
We are about to see that full on here. My old employment facility made 1190-1200mw/hr relatively steady state, the company has three other major facilities 1100mw at Rush Island, 880mw at Sioux, 2300 at Labadie then sporadic CNG Combustion Turbine sites. Rush to close this year, Labadie 3&4 early next year, Sioux as their ash storage ponds top out and they run out of disposal room. So sometime in next 2-3 years losing roughly 3100mw supply where peak demand in Summer is over 10,000-12,000. Even with energy savings equipment, supplemental systems adds and large consumer mechanisms closing that is not decreasing. Their plan is to buy open market where again, HOWEVER, every state surrounding MO is in same concerning shape. IL retired over 5000mw over last two years, KS some 2500, AR shuttered 2000 and TN/KY closer to 6000. So far IA and NE are holding their own.
Our kwh price is as noted relative to demand periods of time $.15- .17kwh, that is noted may cross $.20 by June and next year no one has a clue.
No new plants being constructed CTG or Nuke or CNG Boiler. Wind and solar cannot be scaled as big as are to lose realistically.
wlhequipment
Senior Member
6-7K tax rebates for 4 years is the ROI at this moment. No energy company is going to buy back energy, I don't believe I ever said that. If I did, it was in error. Excel Energy will this point, give you a credit based on KWH and time of day and time of year. That rate changes when the wind blows, so including that in calculations is a waste of time. Even without the tax incentves, ROI comes back. I pay 12K a year to power my house. If the solar covers 80%, which it's warrantied to do (its actually 92%), my annual power budget now drops to about $2K. That leaves me with $10K I can **** into the wind, or invest in other ways. But even if I just let that 10K sit and earn nothing, that's ROI in a little over 2 years, even without any tax breaks, no money from the power company, just saving what I didn't spend on keeping the lights on.
Spud_Monkey
Senior Member
and these tax rebates come from the printing press and have no bearing on what you pay a year in taxes or why inflation is rampant....
Causality...
Causality...
wlhequipment
Senior Member
Oof. I tried to fix that last post right away, but it wouldn't let me. In any case, the economics of solar is sound and it's happening. Y'all have a nice weekend.
cfherrman
Senior Member
That's 0, if you have excess and they give you 0 that's a 0 on net metering.
You do save a bunch of turning the meter back to zero.
skyking1
Senior Member
That's not how it works. I get to run the meter backwards in the summer. They reset it at March 1.
Spud_Monkey
Senior Member
cfherrman
Senior Member
So when it's time to reset and your meter says -1000, what do you get?
skyking1
Senior Member
Absolutely nothing!
That's on you to size your system properly. That's why I'd run it for a year before I went and bought any solar panels if I ever did buy any.
That's on you to size your system properly. That's why I'd run it for a year before I went and bought any solar panels if I ever did buy any.
cfherrman
Senior Member
You don't get 1 to 1 then, you get 0
skyking1
Senior Member
You've got some major math problems there.
If I produce 10,000 kW hours from March to March and I used 10,000 kW hours, it's one to one I put in a watt I take out a watt.
The only time I lose power is if I make more power than I can use and that would be on me.
If I produce 10,000 kW hours from March to March and I used 10,000 kW hours, it's one to one I put in a watt I take out a watt.
The only time I lose power is if I make more power than I can use and that would be on me.
cfherrman
Senior Member
Everyone gets 1 to 1 to do n it back to zero, the dollar amount of spinning it negative it what the topic is about, in which case you get 0. Most people get a small amount like 0.03 kw/hr
oarwhat
Senior Member
This is so true and they keep coming back!!!! My standard answer for them now is "I don't know" They say but you must know about this ? Nope not going go through that again.
