The upcoming generation

[Birken Vogt]

We have to work on getting families back together if we want future generations to succeed.

You are right but:

That can only happen if factors we don't talk about here come back into play. No ifs ands or buts about that.

It's Sunday.

 

[92U 3406]

You are right but:

That can only happen if factors we don't talk about here come back into play. No ifs ands or buts about that.

It's Sunday.

I hear you 100%. There's not one person or group at fault for that either.

 

[Old Doug]

I will be 58 this month i am glade i am not any younger because i think i have lived through some pretty good times. If there was a way i could live another life time after this one i dont think i would want to but i think every one thought things were getting worse and worse as they got older but the world is going on.

 

[mowingman]

I haul these type of kids to school any day I fill in on the school bus. I hate to think of the type of world we would live in after they start running things. The only stable, well adjusted kids I see are the ones I haul up to the technical trade school. And, there are not nearly enough of them.

 

[cfherrman]

Kids these days is just a huge cop out

"My anxiety"

"Fear of confrontation"

When I was young we had to learn everything, now kids with unlimited access to information just see if you can do it for them.

If a young kid is hungry and has ambition, they will go really far in this world. The next generation will be better as they will be hungry as their parents will not do anything for them.

 

[kshansen]

I haul these type of kids to school any day I fill in on the school bus. I hate to think of the type of world we would live in after they start running things. The only stable, well adjusted kids I see are the ones I haul up to the technical trade school. And, there are not nearly enough of them.

Well I guess the, what I call "MIS-guidance" counselors have not changed one bit since the 1960's when I was in high school! Like I have mentioned a few times on this site, in the mid-`60's I tried to get to go to the then new trades school in the county. But I got shot down by the so called "counselor" she said "NOPE, you're college material!"

That attitude was still "popular" twenty some years later. My older brother after retiring from 20 years in the Air Force ended up as an vice principal at a trade school a couple counties over from the one I tried to go to. He always complained about and to the "counselors" about how they liked to use the trade school as a "dumping ground" for the kids that were causing problems in the various high schools.

One of his favorite things to ask these "counselors" was: "Do you really want "Dope head Johnny" fixing the brakes on your little girl Mary's car while he's high on the latest fad drug?" Not sure if that ever did any good other than making him feel good about putting them in their place.

 

[92U 3406]

These egg-head school counselors have less than zero clue how much brain power and intelligence is truely needed to be a tradesperson. Logical/critical thinking, deductive reasoning, problem solving abilities and thinking on the fly. Especially with how computerized equipment is today. You have to have brains AND brawn to excel in the trades IMO.

 

[Truck Shop]

You have to have brains AND brawn to excel in the trades IMO.

You just have to have the want that's what counts, no want or desire it ain't going to happen.
Personally I've never seen brains & brawn all at one time in a human.
*
Any of the trades can be learned & taught, without a class room full of desire there is no teaching
or learning.
*
The day of the week has nothing to do with it.

 

[92U 3406]

You just have to have the want that's what counts, no want or desire it ain't going to happen.
Personally I've never seen brains & brawn all at one time in a human.
*
Any of the trades can be learned & taught, without a class room full of desire there is no teaching
or learning.
*
The day of the week has nothing to do with it.

I somewhat disagree. Having the drive is the first part of the equation. You still need to be up to the task, physically, as well as having the brains to think a task or procedure through logically.

I've never seen an Einstein-level genius with Schwarzenegger-level strength either but I know a lot of folks who can troubleshoot effectively and still break out a 20 lb sledge and hammer out track pins and pad swap just as quick as anyone else.

I think being well-rounded is a very valuable aspect to being a tradesperson.

 

[Truck Shop]

I think being well-rounded is a very valuable aspect to being a tradesperson

That's what I'm taking about, a average Joe.

 

[56wrench]

Don’t get me started on what’s wrong with the system

 

[funwithfuel]

I know this has been beat to death, but our particular trade, trucks and heavy equipment combines nearly every trade. There's not much we don't touch fingers with. Electricity both AC & DC, high and low voltage. HVAC, hydraulics, powertrain, plumbing, carpentry, welding and fabrication and then the sub specialties of each. We all have to retain the old tech and bridge the gap to current and now the introduction of hybrid power systems to mainstream equipment.
The days of a strong back and a weak mind are numbered in this field.

 

[mekanik]

Most of the shops I worked in had a couple or three strong backs with weak minds that did all the jobs the real mechanics did not like doing. I feel bad for future mechanics if those guys disappear.

 

[mks]

TS, ‘the want’
It’s difficult to teach those without.

 

[Truck Shop]

TS, ‘the want’
It’s difficult to teach those without.

I'm quite aware of that--I was on the board of the local votech school. Which closed for awhile
and has now restarted. Although that was some years back when I did that. Direct quote from
instructor {Out of ten there is only 4 that have the drive and want/interest and most of the time
it's only two so it averages 3 out ten that could cut the mustard}.

 

[Joe H]

Rising Number of Men Don't Want to Work​

merican men are opting out of the workforce at unforeseen rates.

For many, it's not an issue of not being able to find a job. They have simply opted out altogether. The Bureau of Labor Statistics found only 89 percent of working age men have a job or are actively looking for work. In 1950, that number was at 97 percent.

While the early 1950s saw around 96 percent of working age American men between the ages of 25 and 54 working full or part-time jobs, that proportion has now moved to just 86 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

And as fewer men financially support themselves, there are long-reaching economic and societal implications, experts say.

"The U.S. has a major issue of prime-age men giving up and permanently exiting the labor force," Robin Brooks, a senior fellow policy research firm the Brookings Institution and the former chief economist at IIF, wrote on X, formerly Twitter this week.

"What's striking about this is that it doesn't get talked about at all, not in the mainstream media and not by economists, even though this obviously feeds political radicalization."

What Caused The Drop?​

Recessions often bring down the workforce participation rate, and often the numbers never quite recover.

The 2008 Great Recession saw male employment decline from 88 to just 80.6 percent, and the rate has never been able to get higher than 86.7 percent since then. The pandemic saw a similar if not slightly different fate for men's work. After dropping to 78 percent in 2020, male workforce participation has essentially recovered to pre-pandemic times now but still remains far below the times of the 1950s.

A larger factor may be men's declining participation in higher education. While women historically were excluded from universities, they now outpace men at college roughly 60 to 40 percent.
And for those without a college degree, unemployment is far more likely. Those with only a high school diploma have an unemployment rate of 3.9 percent compared to just 2.2 percent of those who achieved a bachelor's degree, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
A recent study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston linked a drop in self esteem related to the jobs on the market as a possible factor.

The drop in men in the workforce has been largely concentrated among non-college educated men, and it's these men who face a significant decline in earnings.
Over the timespan of 1980 and 2019, non-college-educated men's median weekly earnings went down 17 percent after inflation, while college-educated men saw earnings rise by 20 percent.
"This finding suggests that deteriorating social status is a plausible key factor," the Boston Fed paper said.

Of course, since 1950, there's also been growth in the United States' safety social net.
While 1960 saw only 455,000 workers on Social Security disability benefits, that had moved to 7.6 million people in 2022. Of that cohort, 1.3 million were men between the ages of 25 and 54.
"If the jobs don't meet people's needs, people can't work," Yvonne Vissing, a professor at Salem State University and an expert on the changing role of men in society, told Newsweek. "It's not that they won't work. They can't, given the job options, locations, tasks, hours, pay, and environments that are available."

Men have also been more likely to go to graduate school or be stay-at-home dads in recent years.
The shift in industry work available will also see men lose traction in the workforce, Vissing said.
Most factory or manufacturing jobs are gone in the United States, and while STEM remains a hot field, health, education and administration roles are increasing in importance, Vissing said. These jobs are often held by women.

Men also may be leaving the workforce due to a larger dissatisfaction with capitalist society, Vissing said.

"Many jobs are simply not satisfying," Vissing said. "Working for others who get the benefit of our physical labor and intellectual property is not rewarding either emotionally or financially. People want to work doing jobs that matter to us. We want to use our creativity. We want to matter, and in many businesses, employees simply don't get treated with the respect and support that we need and want. People walk away from them."

Rising number of men don't want to work

As fewer men financially support themselves, there are long-reaching economic and societal implications, experts say.

www.newsweek.com

​

 

[Truck Shop]

^^^^^. This goes back to what I said about the industries doing it to themselves.
I don't know anyone who wants to work in any job where they feel like no more
than a number or cog in a wheel. When I use the word anyone-that's anyone with
ambition.

 

[Joe H]

Of course, since 1950, there's also been growth in the United States' safety social net.
While 1960 saw only 455,000 workers on Social Security disability benefits, that had moved to 7.6 million people in 2022. Of that cohort, 1.3 million were men between the ages of 25 and 54.
"If the jobs don't meet people's needs, people can't work," Yvonne Vissing, a professor at Salem State University and an expert on the changing role of men in society, told Newsweek. "It's not that they won't work. They can't, given the job options, locations, tasks, hours, pay, and environments that are available."

Why are those 1,300,000 men not working? Article doesn't say, the professor says "they can't" but that's bullshit, or not for the reasons she states.

F-ing lazy & gaming the system is why.

Joe H

 

[mks]

Much respect TS.
I am experiencing this lack of want in my situation and I should have mentioned that above.

 

[JD955SC]

I think you guys tend to compare today’s generation with the generation that was spawned out of the Great Depression and WWII. Vast numbers of men who went through hard times and then were forged by that war.

Concurrently with the war a large number of people were trained and skilled by the government in all manners of trades, forming a skilled labor backbone that carried American trades through the 80s and early 90s

We don’t have the luxury these days, especially since there have been a couple of generations that got largely skipped for a few reasons.

There are quite a few people coming into the trades nowadays, especially thanks to the efforts of people like Mike Rowe to expose the need and opportunity

Sometimes I think you guys judge the incoming generation a little too harshly.

For sure there are screwups and 9/10 times those screwups are Daddy’s Boy who are in it because their father thought that forcing the way he went upon them was the way. My father tried to force a couple of careers on me that weren’t my idea of fun and lacking motivation, I would have been just as shitty at them.

The guys that want to be here in the trade get no credit. And the bosses and shop lead men expect them to walk in with 15 years experience as a journeyman as well without the will to implement a robust training program to educate and grow skills.

Instead that same crappy management and crappy coworkers tend to run off people that want to do the job but don’t want to be treated like crap.

Plenty of the young people I know entering the workforce have good solid plans to do good things with their life, and it’s a hard time these days for those that want to live life the right way and provide for themselves. Maybe we should stop bitching about “those damn kids” and think about trying to identify the gems in the rough and polish them?