The most entertaining "school me"thread... My 1st piece of H.E. Two 80ton Hoes

[douglasco]

Thought I should save anymore skimmers from making fools of themselves:

"But the boulders range in size up to about 100 tons. I'll try to get some pics next time I move the big rocks. For now this will have to do."

Yes, the front shovels push alot harder. If I'm up against something solid, it can usually push the machine backwards, and remember the grousers are alot deeper on these then standard excavators. However, on the ex700 It seems like only one of the rams pushing the arm is doing the work. When i detached them to transport it one wouldn't move with the stick like it was suppose to, guessing its only when the capacity of the other one is surpassed, otherwise one ram is being pulled by the other. The pc650 only has one 8" ram there where the ex700 has 2 6' rams. Like i said, the clamshell is very useful. Its *almost* like having a dozer/loader too. I'm not digging any trenches. And productivity, efficiency? Come on, this isn't a utility company. As far as the counterweight, i've been climbing a grade that i'm afraid it won't make it up with the counterweight. And there is no room to tow it out. I'd like to find a big winch to put on. I see the dozer winchs go cheap, but haven't seen a hydraulic one cheap-got enough projects. But it would be nice, i could use a crane block off the boom and lift a little more weight. The komatsu although dimensionally smaller is heavier then the ex700, the planetaries are bigger, the travel motors are compact and much of the boom is cast. It can actually hold its counterweight in the bucket and extend it almost all the way out before it tips. The PC650 was $11,000. Seriously youre going to tell me to buy a smaller machine? What can i get for $11000? I'm not going from job to job. If I was, i'd still stick with it and put the tracks on quick disconnects. I think it would be easier and much smarter then taking off the boom. The real reason I have two, was because they were at the same auction I won the ex700 first but couldn't pass on the pc650, I'm not one to backout. As soon as i have the bulk of the project done the ex700 will go. I'm not Canadian. But i realize its getting harder and harder to tell the french from the rest of us. ointhead :ban From Texas, now in Colorado. Holler if youre passing thru Denver.

 

[oldtanker]

LOL you can always send one up here for me to play with......just don't know what I'd do with it here on the farm....


Rick

 

[JDOFMEMI]

.....

"But the boulders range in size up to about 100 tons. I'll try to get some pics next time I move the big rocks. For now this will have to do."........

However, on the ex700 It seems like only one of the rams pushing the arm is doing the work. When i detached them to transport it one wouldn't move with the stick like it was suppose to, guessing its only when the capacity of the other one is surpassed, otherwise one ram is being pulled by the other. The pc650 only has one 8" ram there where the ex700 has 2 6' rams. .....

Well, Knowing the area a little, I am sure you have some pretty big stones hidden in there somewhere.
And besides, you never said THOSE in the picture were 100 ton, just that you had SOME that were.

I have moved boulders with a D-9L and D-9H blade to blade and the 1 rock stuck out on each side by 4 or 5 feet, and was as tall as the cab on the D-9H. Was it 100 ton? If not, it may have been more.

As far as the Hitachi goes, only one cylinder is supposed to push on the stick. The other one is tied in to the bucket curl and allows the bucket to maintain position relative to the ground during the stroke of the stick. On the Komatsu, you have to manually adjust the bucket angle to do that. At least that is how I have been explained that it works.

Do you have the Hitachi together as well?

As far as the 70 ton machines on a residential lot, it is pretty normal in rocky hill country. I have done many lots with 700 Hitachi and 375 Cat hoes, as well as D-9L's. Does that mean I am crazy, or just productive? I am talking of custom lots in areas like he posted. but with less trees.

I have seen a 992C loader and a D-10 on a 2 acre residential site near here.

 

[ziggy]

Isnt it hard on it to run it without a counterweight? I'm asking this because on most big electric diggers pushing on a counterweight with a d11 or anything is a big time no no.Hard on the swing motors etc.They are designed to be balanced on the carbody.


A 100 tonne rock would fit it in the bucket of that leternou loader I posted a picture of but only enough to get a bite.
Another operator and I once put 2 d10n's together to push a huge rock,the friction of the blades rubbing together literally had the hardened steel on the blades melting and dripping off like welding slag.

 

[douglasco]

Isnt it hard on it to run it without a counterweight? I'm asking this because on most big electric diggers pushing on a counterweight with a d11 or anything is a big time no no.Hard on the swing motors etc.They are designed to be balanced on the carbody.


Another operator and I once put 2 d10n's together to push a huge rock,the friction of the blades rubbing together literally had the hardened steel on the blades melting and dripping off like welding slag.

I think you have to consider leverage, for example if you have a long stick and big full bucket at full reach, compared to a short stick and small bucket fully tucked in, i would imagine the difference is huge, similar to operating a shovel with no counterweight at all. Sure perfect ballance is best, but so is not working it at all. Its obvious these machines are not engineered to a T. Thus the reason the counterweights are the same weight for any configuration. I have had the counterweight on which is about 20k and the ex700 counterweight hanging from that for more ballast, it is about 30k iirc. The lie I have heard at the dealer as to why you can't get a machine bigger then about a 200 with a blade on it is because the slewing bearings don't like it. But i think the real reason you are not suppose to push on one with a dozer is because if not done properly you are possibly exerting force against the swing lock mechanism. I'm sure there are several "big no no's" in the biz that are really just the old geazers inflicting their will and soverign reign on the young guys. Remember I said that I can often push the whole machine backwards with the hydraulics on the shovel. and thats not only if i'm pushing down on the bucket, its when most the weight is still on the tracks. There is no difference between that and pushing on the counterweight with a dozer. Just my opinions, remember i don't know jack.

 

[ziggy]

I think you have to consider leverage, for example if you have a long stick and big full bucket at full reach, compared to a short stick and small bucket fully tucked in, i would imagine the difference is huge, similar to operating a shovel with no counterweight at all. Sure perfect ballance is best, but so is not working it at all. Its obvious these machines are not engineered to a T. Thus the reason the counterweights are the same weight for any configuration. I have had the counterweight on which is about 20k and the ex700 counterweight hanging from that for more ballast, it is about 30k iirc. The lie I have heard at the dealer as to why you can't get a machine bigger then about a 200 with a blade on it is because the slewing bearings don't like it. But i think the real reason you are not suppose to push on one with a dozer is because if not done properly you are possibly exerting force against the swing lock mechanism. I'm sure there are several "big no no's" in the biz that are really just the old geazers inflicting their will and soverign reign on the young guys. Remember I said that I can often push the whole machine backwards with the hydraulics on the shovel. and thats not only if i'm pushing down on the bucket, its when most the weight is still on the tracks. There is no difference between that and pushing on the counterweight with a dozer. Just my opinions, remember i don't know jack.

The thing with big iron is time will tell,as swing motors are made to swing the house,any undo pressure on it will probably cause early failure and thats also why you dont see any big excavators with winches on them.Same with the ring gear.
Now when you have to start replacing these parts then that cheap auction price you got negates the repairs you will have to make.I dont care if you have your own cnc shop,I could do the same work with a couple john deeres with a hammer and one with a thumb and in the end,it will be much cheaper.
Us Canadians arent all french either,that's a stereotype but they do own the arctic and owned it long before any Americans even knew where the Arctic is.

 

[mitch504]

You said it

I'm sure there are several "big no no's" in the biz that are really just the old geazers inflicting their will and soverign reign on the young guys. Just my opinions, remember i don't know jack.

...

 

[ziggy]

Then theres us guys with over 35 years in the biz but what do we know?

We deal with greenhorns all the time,they come,they got cash,they show their lack of experience in the field.We laugh.

 

[douglasco]

I agree, swing motors are the weak point on these machines. I think its an industry flaw. There should be a ram actuator for the top-end of the torque range.

r.
Us Canadians arent all french either,that's a stereotype but they do own the arctic and owned it long before any Americans even knew where the Arctic is.

...This is true. All I know is what I see on the forums and auctions, but i think Canadians are way more bad ass then us.

i wouldn't use a winch off the house very often.

"Then theres us guys with over 35 years in the biz but what do we know?"

....Yeah, like at Martin Materials where I got the EX700 from, they had it turned up so hot it would stall on anything less then WOT. And they just couldn't figure out why they had to throw $200,000 into it the last 2 years before they ended up selling it. Lucky for me, i basically got a new machine. I'm sure a certified dealer even made the adjustments.

"I could do the same work with a couple john deeres with a hammer and one with a thumb and in the end,it will be much cheaper."

I don't want to use a hammer or blast. I'm not trying to clear the lot, and i don't want gravel. The pike's peak and denver granite boulders are half the value of the property.

"with a couple john deeres" ..... now ur giving deere a bad name, insinuating that they don't make any big machines. Or is that an industry slang, like saying "its probably made in mexico or china"

I love you guys:drinkup

 

[ziggy]

john deeres are pretty well hitachis now anyways.I think the only thing thats original deere in a JD hoe now is the engine.

 

[Cat Wrench]

This is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

I would love to be douglasco's neighbor. You wouldn't have any problems giving directions to your house "just look for the two gargantuan machines in the yard parked beside the family wagon and go to the next house".

I thought the thread was a hoax until the pictures, that was funny. All I have to say is "Good game, you win". Man I thought I went overkill but you have set the bar much higher than I could ever achieve.:scool:thumbsup

 

[r00t]

I'm on your side douglasco.

There are no right or wrongs in your case, just get it done and have fun while doing it. opcorn

Congratulations to two bargains !

 

[WC&T]

Quite the entertaining thread, even with all the penis envy floating around.

 

[douglasco]

Quite the entertaining thread, even with all the penis envy floating around.

LoL

It is pretty funny. I'm on the front range right off I-25. If you haven't been here, at the edge of the mountains its basically flat all the way to kansas, there are no foothills. This is the only neighborhood in the mountains around. So all the contractors and delivery boys aren't use to not being able to rely on their GPS and mapquest Since I started the project, people knock on my door and say. So and so gave me directions to their house, and they told me look for the big machines and then do 'such and such' and i can't find their house, can you help.

 

[ziggy]

Tell them you picked them up (house)and moved them a few miles down the road.

 

[Dr Komatsu]

Love the Pc650 pics,one of my favourite jobs as an apprentice was assembling PC650SE's ,backhoe & face shovels. Bring back some good memories !

 

[douglasco]

One of the contractors building a cabin down the street started a rumor that i was going to pick up my house and add another story under it. The HOA called the county on me. The county laughed when he came out. My house is 4 stories and is solid 8" reinforced concrete.

 

[kneelo]

Nice...!!! Thats some big gear you've got there!!!

At least on 3 acres you won't be tramming too much so the undercarriage should last for ages.

Not that you look like you are, but I wouldn't worry too much about they naysayers. It looks like these machines were so cheap you can afford to try a few different things and if it doesn't come off you won't have lost much. Doing things the 'conventional' way is the safest if its your livelihood and its competitive but I think its situations like this where you are free to try new things that leads to innovation... and it look like a lot of fun. Keep us posted on how you go.

 

[shooterm]

Awesome pictures douglasco!

 

[Buckethead]

Nice pics! Be careful around those wires.