Tell me about a 2000 National Boom Truck model 1395

[GrainBinMan]

Hello everyone. New here to the forum. Lot's of helpful info.

We build grain bins, grain elevators, install conveyors, augers, etc. One of my long term goals is to get a crane. If we need a crane we always contacted somebody in that business. I would like to have a crane on a project and be available to use for an hour or two and not have to be constantly calling in someone else to help us.

In checking about renting a bare crane, the dealer mentioned about this National Crane that another dealer had traded in. He would give me the opportunity to rent it before buying.
30 ton swing cab crane; 95' main boom; 27-48' two piece jib; 7 ton hook ball; out and down outriggers
Mounted on 2000 Sterling; 275 HP CAT 3126; 40k rears, 18k front; steel wheels; spring suspension; A/C; 3900 PTO hours; 148,000 miles

It just had the tele cylinder and cables redone last year. What should I look for, any major do's or don'ts? Tricks of the trade? How many hours before a crane is needing any major repairs? We already have some rigging. I don't know what cribbing comes with it. What do you make cribbing out of? Am I crazy?

I grew up on a farm and have run many skid loaders, small wheel loaders, telehandlers, manlifts, etc. I'm not afraid to tinker a little if there is an issue, but i have no idea about cranes other than rigging whatever I need lifted and telling the operator where I want it.

 

[cecil89]

I am still shaking my head on how to address this without sounding pompous and a big penis .A lot of times machines with a lot of hours have a lot of terror done to them. some have idle hours on them, machine gets started and just sits and idles not actually used. You will need to find some one that knows his way around a crane. Hire him and learn from him if you would like to operate this set up. I have yet to see a machine come with cribbing but I would bet any dealer would be happy to sell you these products or send you in the right direction.Learning to operate is not that difficult, learning to avoid foreseeable problems is experience and that it what you pay a good operator for- to fore see the future. Oh as a National crane you have a Manitowoc product which is a fine machine product

 

[Knepptune]

I certainly would not consider 3900 hrs high hrs. We had an old grove that showed 29,000 and its owned by an apartment framer now. Still works every single day.

Hrs definitely don't tell the whole story but if the LMI is still in good working order I bet it hasn't been overloaded to much. I think the appearance of the crane will pretty much tell you how it's been taken care of. If it's dented, scratched, leaky, etc you can assume it hasn't had an easy life. If it has original paint and still looks pretty I'd bet it's been taken care of.

We built our crane mats out of 5 5/8" inch pieces of plywood glued and screwed together. 36" square. They are heavy but it's amazing how soft the ground can be under those matts and the crane still feels completely stable.



National makes a good boom truck but if I had to chose one crane to own I would look at a terex t230. Wouldn't ride as nice as a boom truck but will travel 65mph and do things that boom truck won't even think about.. 94 live boom with a 40ft jib. If your only gonna own one crane that's the model I'd look at.

Forgot one thing. Not to scare you but that 3126 cat is a nightmare engine. Hands down the worst engine since the old two stroke detroits.

 

[td25c]

That sounds like a nice low hour / mile unit .

Tradesman runs a similar rig . He might chime in with ideas .
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?35645-new-ride


For general cribbing I use 4 inch thick oak planks with all thread reinforcement . There probably 14 " wide X 48" long . Stow them in racks on the side of the rig .

 

[GrainBinMan]

If I bought this unit it would be from the crane dealer. And they are a very reputable dealer.

I don't want to sound like I know it all, because I don't know much at all. But we have worked around a variety of cranes and operators for the last 10 years. Maybe it's just that I personally want to run a crane and using it for our business is just an excuse. The grain bin dealer that traded this crane in, says he can't find operators.

National cranes are made just across the hill from me. Don't know if I could run in and pick up a part, but maybe?

 

[GrainBinMan]

I certainly would not consider 3900 hrs high hrs. We had an old grove that showed 29,000 and its owned by an apartment framer now. Still works every single day.

Hrs definitely don't tell the whole story but if the LMI is still in good working order I bet it hasn't been overloaded to much. I think the appearance of the crane will pretty much tell you how it's been taken care of. If it's dented, scratched, leaky, etc you can assume it hasn't had an easy life. If it has original paint and still looks pretty I'd bet it's been taken care of.

We built our crane mats out of 5 5/8" inch pieces of plywood glued and screwed together. 36" square. They are heavy but it's amazing how soft the ground can be under those matts and the crane still feels completely stable.



National makes a good boom truck but if I had to chose one crane to own I would look at a terex t230. Wouldn't ride as nice as a boom truck but will travel 65mph and do things that boom truck won't even think about.. 94 live boom with a 40ft jib. If your only gonna own one crane that's the model I'd look at.

Forgot one thing. Not to scare you but that 3126 cat is a nightmare engine. Hands down the worst engine since the old two stroke detroits.

Cribbing really is the least of my worries, just a question that popped into my head.

Are the crane inspections like vehicle inspections? If you find the right shop they will put a sticker on anything?

Which crane are you saying you would run if you could only operate one, the Terex?

What could I expect to run into with the engine?

 

[GrainBinMan]

Meant to say about the inspections that the salesman says everything is up to par and passes.

 

[Knepptune]

Inspections can go either way. Some places will put a sticker on anything, others will pick it apart.

Which one would I rather operate. Probably the national strictly from an operators viewpoint. As a business owner the terex is a much more business friendly crane. I dk about the laws in PA but here in IN a truck crane doesn't need plates or road insurance. It's treated just like a tractor. You can even run off road fuel in them if you want to fight it. The terex will burn the same amount of fuel, cost the same to operate and out pick that national in almost any situation. Don't know about the national but the terex can be operated with outriggers 100% 50% or fully retracted. You can set it up in some pretty tight spots. Also if you use a block much the quick reeve boom head is super nice.

Just type t230 load chart in Google and compare to the 1395 load chart.

On the 3126. In five years we have replaced Cam sensor, water pump, IPR valve, injector cups. (It filled the cooling system with diesel fuel and we had to replace every hose), injector O'rings. And a complete in frame. Had nine broken piston rings when we pulled it apart. It's still the most temperamental engine we have.

 

[td25c]

Cribbing really is the least of my worries, just a question that popped into my head.

And a good question it is ...... As that piece of wood under the outrigger is what's really holding the load up .

Without good cribbing & foundation to set up on .... Well .... You know what I'm getting at .

 

[Tradesman]

Thanks for the referal Td25. as td25 said I have a Elliott 32105 in a very simalar configuration as the one your looking at. I bought my first crane an old 8 ton pitman for the same reason as you I wanted one and found a reason to buy it, I will say I'm glad i got the little boom truck first because just like you I'm a farm boy and am a natural at running equipment and the crane was no different, BUT mistakes kill people. With the old pitman it was hard to get in any trouble it was so small, then i got a terex 4792, the charts clearly said DON'T operate over the front, what did I do I operated over the front, I had 90 ft. of stick out and reached out to pick up a bath tub and down she started going it lifted the rear right off the outriggers thank the Lord it stopped when the front wheels touched down. Right then I decided if i was going to survive this I was going to have to be more than good on equippment and become an operator, so I went home and started reading everything I could get my hands on, watched videos, seeked out good operators and learned what i could from them and just generaly started respecting what I was doing. Now four years later I've been told numerous times I'm a good very safety conscious operator and have become the operator of choice over some old hands that are better operators than me but are rammy and don't maintain there equipment as well as I do. I guess what I'm saying is if you get this crane become a student of what your doing and please be careful, now I'll get down from my soap box.
As other have said get lots of cribbing and keep it with you many times I have started setting up with my standard 24" pads and it was obvious that they where not going to do so out came the 48" round pads and they made all the difference. As a horseman we have a saying no foot no horse the same can be said about crane set up if your not set up on adequate footing you can't operate safely. Next keep lots of rigging with you so that your not tempted to gerry rig something or use non rated rigging i.e.: farmers old rusty chain and unrated clevis out of the tool box of a tractor.
As to the condition of the unit there has already been some good advise given by other hear. i find the size and capacity of mine very useful.Good luck with what ever you do, personally its one of the best things I've ever done every day in that seat is like a dream come true.

 

[barklee]

There is no doubt that the Terex T230 would hands down be the way to go between these two cranes. That National is a good machine but the problem with this one is the truck/ engine. Im not a fan of any Sterling trucks and that engine, as already described has a patchy history. We buy and sell a couple boom trucks a year and i wont buy anything on a Sterling truck..... which sometimes makes it difficult because a lot of Nationals are on a Sterling. However, money is money and if you can get this at a steep discount because of the truck it may be worth it....just be prepared for the additional costs
3800 hours isnt much for a National, we used to have an 1100 series with 14,000 hours and no major repairs. Only negative comment on a National is they are painfully slow on the telescope.

 

[GrainBinMan]

Thank you all very much for the input.

Sorry, I thought I remember seeing a 'multi-quote' function on the forum here, but now I can't see it.


cecil89 - I'm not offended by your comments. I need some naysayers to help keep my feet on the ground.

td25c - I see that you use individual pieces for cribbing. That would probably be the best for us because sometimes we would get in un-even terrain. You use oak because that is stronger vs. treated 6x6?

Knepptune - I looked up the T230 load chart and I see that you are right about the capability of it. The National (if I'm reading the chart correctly) will operate with outriggers at mid-span. I will have to ask the dealer whose responsibility it would be if, while renting the unit, the engine gave trouble.

Tradesman - We worked with another grain bin dealer that has an Elliott crane (I want to say it is a 40t). They had rolled their original crane (icy roads, not on a job site) and while waiting to get their new one, the operator said they rented an Elliott and he bent the boom. The operator was pretty dismayed that his boss was buying a new Elliott, but since they have it, the operator says he likes it. The reason I am running over all this, the salesman with this National crane says the Elliott is built lighter and is not as good as a National. What is your take on it?

barklee - $99,000 is what he is asking for it. Is that discounted enough? I saw a National crane on a Sterling with a Mercedes engine on an auction. Is that any better combination?



One of the reasons I would like to have my own crane, we get into many different areas, sometimes 3 hours from our shop. So we end up using a crane/operator outfit that we don't know and/or the operator has never worked with what we want lifted. Very rarely, but it has happened, we have gotten an operator that wanted to do it his way and we knew it wouldn't work, but we left him try it and then see that we did know what we were talking about. So we lost an hour while re-doing the rigging. And this past summer we worked with an owner/operator that had no qualms about running his crane with the safeties unhooked, and lifting the outriggers off the ground to pick a load further out.

I was thinking we would only do our own work. And 90% of the time it would be new equipment going up. My theory is, I would know right away, before it was very far off the ground, what weight we were lifting (in case my 'pre-lift' calculation was wrong). Am I right about that, or doesn't it work that way?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Tradesman]

Grainbinman said
Tradesman - We worked with another grain bin dealer that has an Elliott crane (I want to say it is a 40t). They had rolled their original crane (icy roads, not on a job site) and while waiting to get their new one, the operator said they rented an Elliott and he bent the boom. The operator was pretty dismayed that his boss was buying a new Elliott, but since they have it, the operator says he likes it. The reason I am running over all this, the salesman with this National crane says the Elliott is built lighter and is not as good as a National. What is your take on it?

No I don't think they are as good as a National but they are very similar .I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that Elliott hired some of the Engineers that worked for National before Manitowoc bought them. Having said that I am very happy with it, it has great charts and does everything I ask of it. I treat it with great respect, when that buzzer goes of I don't ask any more of it, and it shows, I've had three NDT tests done on it and never had to fix anything yet, the last time it was done was a month ago and the technician said it was in very good condition. The reason I have it is it was $50,000 less money than a National in similar condition, end of story.
In regards to Sterlings with a Mercedes thats what mine is, great machine, in over two years I've kept the oil and filters changed, put a new muffler on and changed a 6" piece of fuel line. It gets great milage, road time and PTO time combined it uses 5 imperial gallons an hour, again I treat it very well, never ramming it, warming up, cooling down. I've never heard a trucker say he liked one but I usually don't pay much attention to truckers, sitting on your brains all day isn't conducive to deep thought.

 

[td25c]

td25c - I see that you use individual pieces for cribbing. That would probably be the best for us because sometimes we would get in un-even terrain. You use oak because that is stronger vs. treated 6x6?

Yeah GrainBinMan , I keep 8 foot 7"x9" railroad ties , 4 foot 7"x9''s , and 3 foot 6" x 6" oak cribbing . I like the 6"x6"x 3' the best as it is easy to handle and can toss a few up on the deck of the crane if we think we need it .

Then on other jobs like in the first picture where we need extra footing it gets loaded on a gooseneck trailer along with a skid loader to help set the cribbing & level up a site if need be . On that job I had the quarry dump two tri axils of #53 stone to back the crane on . Used skid loader to place stone & cribbing . It gets interesting at times , I like it .:yup

 

[Knepptune]

National is considered by many to be the top of line in boom trucks. BUT the boom didn't bend on that Elliot due to it being built lighter. They overloaded it. I know on a lot of older groves its hard to bend a boom. They were boom heavy as all heck. If you overload a grove it's going over before the boom gives in most situations. On our terex the boom will bend before it goes over. You can just tell the boom is pretty light. I'd guess national and Elliot compare the same way.

Make sure the LMI works and don't push the over ride button and you'll be fine.

I don't have anything against boom trucks. I just think a crane is gonna hold up a lot longer then a boom truck.

You can pick up a pretty good t230 for 100k pretty easy if your patient. We got ours for around that and it averaged 60hrs a week for 6 months straight last year without any stop work break downs. Couple blown hoses and a few other minor things. It will break 10,000 hrs here in the next month or so.

 

[td25c]

One of the reasons I would like to have my own crane, we get into many different areas, sometimes 3 hours from our shop.

That was my next question . How far do you travel ?

Most of my work is within 25 miles from the shop .I went with older Grove units .

Boom truck with good road speed or Terex T230 like Knepptune suggested sound like the way to go .
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1016&Manu=TEREX&Mdltxt=T230&mdlx=exact

 

[Dualie]

My national boom truck has given me great service. The chassis underneath it, im not impressed with but the upper works have been damn good.

 

[GrainBinMan]

I know there is another thread about what ya'll see out your office window; but I put this here because this project is what was kind of driving my desire to have a crane. We did not buy a crane, we didn't even rent a bare crane (because insurance was prohibitive). So far we've made out. Monday we'll bring in a crane service and move some stuff around.

 

[Shimmy1]

View attachment 136411

Is this your Deere telehandler? I have never seen one for real.

 

[GrainBinMan]

No that is the customers machine. My understanding is Deere no longer makes them in the US. This one came from overseas somewhere.