Takeuchi TL230-2 won’t start

[Kev68ss]

@Shblack - Another question- my fuel gauge is all of a sudden reading wrong- too high. Any ideas here? Thanks in advance!

 

[Kev68ss]

The round object with the two heavy wires is the main power contactor. None of the three relays shown have been replaced recently. The battery negative connection is connected to the frame on a stud right inside of the rear door opening by the battery. A good starting point is to take the lug loose, clean both the lug and the base of the stud (mine had paint on it). If problems persist, measure the voltage between the frame and battery negative post with the key on. Should be near zero volts, if not you may have a bad connection on the battery or a failed ground cable (they can corrode internally).

Hello- It's been a while. Still working on this machine. It's actually worked since we last messaged. Needed a new starter too- all that was good and ready to go. I have 12v on both posts you told me to check with key on. I also have continuity to ground when I test ground to frame- I think it read 02.00. I turn the key on, all lights come on, I hear the fuel pump, turn the key, nothing! So frustrating....

 

[Shblack]

So were you able to get it to start & operate, but now have a new problem? The voltage from the battery negative post (not the clamp, the actual lead post) to frame when cranking should be very low, maybe 0.1V. If it’s 2V that means only ~10V is available for the starter less whatever other losses there might be. I mention the post, since measuring from the clamp to the frame will miss a bad connection to the battery post.

 

[Kev68ss]

Hello- I may have said the wrong thing. I was getting 2 ohms when measuring from battery to ground. I have 12v on each post you told me to check (solenoid?). Yes, it worked for a while, now the same thing happening. I’m missing something! I have not checked switch or anything near the starter. Just messing with battery now- connections, etc.

 

[Simon C]

You can not test for how good a cable is in the ohms scale. A cable with 100 strands, of which 99 are broken will test 100% as there is still 1 perfect path from end to end.
The cable will run nothing.
From negative post to frame can read as high as 0.5 volts while trying to start.
Hope it helps. Meter will be on DC Volts.
Simon C

 

[Kev68ss]

Ok thank you. I was checking continuity per posts I have been reading. I’ll do the negative cable volt check tomorrow. What part of TN are you in?

 

[Shblack]

Simon is correct, also even a slight voltage difference between the ends of the cable will give a wildly wrong resistance reading, plus the resistance of the test leads & probes is probably 100X higher than a good ground cable. Measuring voltage drop under load is the only to test a heavy cable like those used on the battery. I am in middle TN, up in Houston county.

 

[Kev68ss]

Thanks guys. The problem is it’s not turning over at all. Just a click. With that being said, will I be able to see that volume drop as the key is turned even though not cranking?

 

[Shblack]

With The key in the run position after maybe 30 seconds does the oil pressure light come on and an alarm sound (assuming the alarm hasn’t been disconnected)? The current will be much lower without it cranking, so there should be virtually no voltage between the negative post and frame. Why was the starter replaced?

 

[Kev68ss]

I’ll check that today. The starter started hanging and getting stuck “open”

 

[Simon C]

In post #28 you say that the starter does not crank but you hear a click.
Put positive meter test lead on positive battery and hold there with needle vicegrips if you do not have alligator clips.
Hold negative test lead on S-Terminal of starter while someone holds the key switch in start position for 5-10 seconds.
If the reading on the meter is more than 0.5 volts with fully charged battery, you have a problem in the safety circuit.
What voltage did you get on your meter when checking the ground as I advised in post #25 from frame with red test lead, to battery negative with black test lead while holding the key in start position for 5-10 seconds. Good to have lights and fan on when doing test to flow some current to be able to measure voltage drop.
Take a picture of this post to know what test to do when you get to machine. My little trick!
Let me know what you find and will advice what to check next.
Simon C

 

[Shblack]

Did you check to see if the alarm / oil pressure light came on? If it does it suggests a problem in the safety circuit, where the alternator isn’t pulling the safety line down when powered but not turning.

 

[Kev68ss]

In post #28 you say that the starter does not crank but you hear a click.
Put positive meter test lead on positive battery and hold there with needle vicegrips if you do not have alligator clips.
Hold negative test lead on S-Terminal of starter while someone holds the key switch in start position for 5-10 seconds.
If the reading on the meter is more than 0.5 volts with fully charged battery, you have a problem in the safety circuit.
What voltage did you get on your meter when checking the ground as I advised in post #25 from frame with red test lead, to battery negative with black test lead while holding the key in start position for 5-10 seconds. Good to have lights and fan on when doing test to flow some current to be able to measure voltage drop.
Take a picture of this post to know what test to do when you get to machine. My little trick!
Let me know what you find and will advice what to check next.
Simon C

Hopefully try tomorrow- rained all day today. Thanks again, so frustrating!!

 

[Kev68ss]

Did you check to see if the alarm / oil pressure light came on? If it does it suggests a problem in the safety circuit, where the alternator isn’t pulling the safety line down when powered but not turning.

Hopefully try tomorrow- we had rain all day. Thanks again for the help!

 

[Kev68ss]

Did you check to see if the alarm / oil pressure light came on? If it does it suggests a problem in the safety circuit, where the alternator isn’t pulling the safety line down when powered but not turning.

So when I first turn the key I hear a beep, all lights come on, then go off. Then all that is blinking is the oil light and battery light. I can hear the fuel pump. Soon as I turn the key-nothing. I let it sit with the key on and it never beeped again.

 

[Shblack]

I believe I wrote about this earlier. The alternator has 3 electrical connections
- Heavy wire, carries the alternator output to charge the battery
- Swiched 12V, which excites the alternators field allowing it to generate power
- Control line (don’t know what it’s called), switches to ground when the switched 12V is applied (alternator not turning), goes to 12V when the alternator is turning & producing 12V.

The control line has two functions, when low it allows current to flow in the coil of the safety relay, which closes its contacts allowing current to flow in the coil of the start relay when the key is moved to the start position. It also tells the computer the motor is running when it’s at 12V. When it’s at 12V and the computer doesn't see an output from the oil pressure switch it assumes there is no oil pressure (there isn’t any, the motor isn’t running) and turns on the oil pressure light.

So my suggestion is for you to measure the voltages on the 4 pins of the safety relay with the key switch in run position.

 

[Shblack]

Safety relay

 

[Shblack]

Pin diagram of safety relay, service manual doesnt have this info.

 

[Shblack]

SF relay is the safety relay, it applies power to the start relay.

 

[Kev68ss]

Great info- thanks. Big stupid question- where is the SF on the machine? I assume when checking all 4 leads with my multi meter, I’m testing with red and grounding the black to the frame, bolt, etc?