Takeuchi TL230-2 won’t start

[Shblack]

Was using the TL230 yesterday, seemed to be running normally, shut it down to cut up a log. Went to restart it, get the normal light show on the indicator panel but it won’t crank. Once the light show is over, the oil pressure light blinks and the alarm sounds in sync with the oil pressure light. Things I have checked:
- Battery voltage 12.6V
- Voltage from battery negative post to frame less than 0.05V
- All fuses check ok, removed and cleaned contacts, reinstalled
- Voltage on coil of start relay when cranking - 0.0V (relay hasn’t failed)
- Start relay is driven by the safety relay, which has 3 inputs:
- Keyed 12V is present
- A pin with a white / black wire is at 11.0V when key is in start position
- A pin with a blue wire remains at zero V, suspect this is the alternator tachometer output (blue wire on alternator)

Wiring diagram shows a second start relay that is controlled by the computer, don’t know where this relay is physically, thinking that is the source of the white / black wire. This relay switches battery voltage, don’t know why it’s measuring 11.0V. Alarm stops sounding when I remove the safety relay. I am preoccupied by the oil pressure light, could we have a failed oil pressure switch / broken wire? Any guidance on where the pressure switch is physically located (Kubota 4cy diesel)? Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Shblack]

Believe I have found the problem. The safety relay is a standard Panasonic part, looked it, got the pin out (just shows up as a box in the wiring diagram). Switched 12V goes to one side of the coil, other side goes to the alternator’s tachometer output. When things are operating normally, upon being 12V applied to the alternator the tachometer output should pull to ground through an open collector transistor, enabling the safety relay and allowing the start relay to actuate. In this case, the tachometer output didn’t pull to ground, inhibiting starting. I pulled the plug off the alternator, verified continuity of the tachometer output to the safety relay and the presence of 12V on the alternator’s field pin. Cleaned the plugs contacts, put it back together, still no joy. Had an old alternator on hand, plugged the wire harness into it, things work normal, safety relay energizes.

 

[Kev68ss]

Where is the starter relay? The other day I turned the key and all lights on display and went off. I had a guy fix it and he said the relay was bad. I don’t know where he replaced it. Having trouble getting in touch with him. Same thing happened today. Went to start it after running great yesterday and as soon as I turned key, all display lights went off. I assume relay again but have no idea what’s blowing it??

 

[Shblack]

Where is the starter relay? The other day I turned the key and all lights on display and went off. I had a guy fix it and he said the relay was bad. I don’t know where he replaced it. Having trouble getting in touch with him. Same thing happened today. Went to start it after running great yesterday and as soon as I turned key, all display lights went off. I assume relay again but have no idea what’s blowing it??

The starter relay is located over the battery next to the air cleaner under a metal cover. It’s the front most relay. IMO it’s highly unlikely the starter relay is causing your display to dim when starting.
The starter draws several hundred amps when cranking, this current flows from the positive terminal of the battery through the main power contactor to the starter solenoid and through the solenoid to the starter motor, returning through the starter housing / frame to the battery negative terminal. The display going dark when cranking suggests its loosing voltage, the most likely cause is a poor connection in the path between the battery positive post and the output of the main power contactor. Suggest
- Measuring the battery positive post voltage to ground while cranking, does it stay above 12V? If not, look for a bad battery
- Measure the battery negative post (not the clamp) voltage to frame while cranking, does it remain under 100mV? If not, look for a bad connection to the battery, a bad cable or a poor connection where the cable connects to frame.
- Measure the voltage on the battery side of the main power contactor while cranking. Does it remain above 12V? If not, check the positive battery connection and the cable between the battery & the contactor.
- Measure the voltage on the output of the main power contactor while cranking, if it drops way down suspect a bad contactor.

Recently I posted the schematic & parts list for the TL230 on the skid steer forum library.

Good Luck & Happy Hunting.

 

[Kev68ss]

@Shblack Thanks for the detailed reply. Let me clarify something. My display isn’t dimming, it’s completely off. When I first turned to start it went dead. No lights, no starting of the engine, nothing. It’s like trying to start with the battery out of the machine. When I turn the key to on, there is nothing, nada lit up as far as gushes, lights won’t come on etc. it’s like a fuse blew and shut everything off. Also, please see the video- what is this blinking red and geeen on the back??

 

[Shblack]

@Shblack View attachment 289911Thanks for the detailed reply. Let me clarify something. My display isn’t dimming, it’s completely off. When I first turned to start it went dead. No lights, no starting of the engine, nothing. It’s like trying to start with the battery out of the machine. When I turn the key to on, there is nothing, nada lit up as far as gushes, lights won’t come on etc. it’s like a fuse blew and shut everything off. Also, please see the video- what is this blinking red and geeen on the back??

Is that on the outside of the machine? If so, I have no idea - it’s not on my machine. There are fuses / fusible links on the right rear down near the battery, they have brownish plastic cover over them secured with 10mm nuts. When I was trouble shooting my problem I checked these fuses. Found one totally burned up, turns out it was the AC fuse - not my problem at the time, but replaced it & the holder. However, bad contacts on the main power contactor could cause the problem you are experiencing. Do you have a wiring diagram or schematic

 

[Kev68ss]

I checked all fusible link area. Is this the metal box where the relays are located?

 

[Shblack]

I checked all fusible link area. Is this the metal box where the relays are located?

That’s the location, the cover is secured by two nuts, one in each end. The relay closest to you when the cover is removed is the main power contactor.

 

[Shblack]

I checked all fusible link area. Is this the metal box where the relays are located?

Here is a snippet of the wiring diagram, showing the battery, contactor, key switch and fuseable links.

 

[Kev68ss]

Great thanks. I don’t have a relay tester, so I guess will just change out and see if it works. Any idea why I would go through a relay so fast? It was just replaced last week??

 

[Shblack]

Great thanks. I don’t have a relay tester, so I guess will just change out and see if it works. Any idea why I would go through a relay so fast? It was just replaced last week??

Do you have a volt meter? This is easy to test.

 

[Kev68ss]

I do

 

[Shblack]

I do

Looking at the wiring diagram, one terminal should have 12V with the key off (heavy wire), one terminal should have continuity to frame (small black wire). That leaves two terminals. With the key switch on both of these wires should have 12V. If the smaller wired terminal doesn’t have 12V, then the key switch circuitry / wiring has a problem. If the smaller wired terminal has 12V and the heavy wire terminal doesn’t the relay has failed. Does the relay look new?

 

[Kev68ss]

I haven’t got it out yet (conference call) but I did look at a YouTube video how to test relays. Yes, the relay is only 4 or 5 days old- if that’s the problem

 

[Kev68ss]

I took the metal cover off, shown below. Don’t see any relays??

 

[Kev68ss]

Weird- I went out to the machine after sitting all day and turned key to on, every came on. When I turned to start, Everything went black again and won’t do anything

 

[heymccall]

With key on, both circled connections should have same voltage (12volt).

 

[Kev68ss]

Great, I will try that tomorrow. I did find something today. I thought about possibly a ground problem since the gauges and lights came on after sitting all day. So, I took jumper cables and went from negative in battery to the block and viola, everything came on and the machine started- I have to have a bad ground. I hear they get a lot of corrosion where it grounds to the body, so that will also be on my list tomorrow. I think I’m getting somewhere!

 

[Shblack]

I took the metal cover off, shown below. Don’t see any relays??View attachment 289934

The round object with the two heavy wires is the main power contactor. None of the three relays shown have been replaced recently. The battery negative connection is connected to the frame on a stud right inside of the rear door opening by the battery. A good starting point is to take the lug loose, clean both the lug and the base of the stud (mine had paint on it). If problems persist, measure the voltage between the frame and battery negative post with the key on. Should be near zero volts, if not you may have a bad connection on the battery or a failed ground cable (they can corrode internally).

 

[Kev68ss]

Great information- I will tackle this today!