Step up to a backhoe from a skidsteer?

[Skideoder]

Wasnt really sure where else to put this, so I figured I'd try here.

I've been operating a Bobcat 763G since mid 2005. Great little machine, low hours and very reliable, but I find myself hitting its limits on pretty much every job I take on here (just moved from Az to Tx 7 mo ago). Doing alot of land clearing with tree and brush removal.

Now, my stepdad owns a larger excavation company in central IL. He's been thinking of trading in one of his Caterpillar backhoes, a '96 or '97 416 (erops, a/c, 4x4) and getting himself a new Bobcat CTL. The dealer kind of lowballed him @ 16k, but the machine has around 8k hrs., has a few leaks, and isnt the prettiest machine. So I basically offered him the same $ for the machine and he's more willing to sell it to me for a cheaper price instead of trading it in. This machine mainly sits around the property now and he uses it hear and there for random tasks. So it doesnt get alot of hours put on it anymore.

My issue is that with re-starting my business here, I dont have alot of extra capitol to put out right now. Granted he might be willing to take partial payment, then let me make some payments till its paid off, but I would probably end up selling my bobcat in order to fund the majority of it.

So I guess I just need some input on doing this. The cons are I wont be able to take on alot of smaller residential jobs where my smaller machine fits, but at the same time alot of those are really good paying, but paying jobs none the less. The pros, I will be able to step up and bid on larger commercial stuff that I cant do now. This would mean better paying jobs, but it also means alot more responsibility and doing some work Im not 100% familiar with.

Now I also have several vehicles I can sell (actually currently for sale) which will more than pay for the machine, but no one has cash for toys these days ('99 Trans Am, '99 F250 4x4). What I was thinking is if I step into the 416, then when the vehicles sell, I can fund the purchase of another Bobcat (a larger one).

Whats everyone think?

 

[SeaMac]

Get yourself two machines, a Compact Track Loader and a Mini-Ex you can do more with these two than you ever could with a TLB. These machines also transport easier and you have much more flexibility with attachments. TLB's are becoming a machine of the past, as they should be...

 

[Skideoder]

I've actually thought about that option too, and I do see alot more mini-ex's on jobsites nowadays. But I think I would have alot more $$ tied up into a CTL and a mini-ex than I would this 416 and thats one incentive to me. I figure if I dont make the $$ I want with the 416, I can always sell it or trade it in for more than I'll have in it. The market on machines down here vs. the market in IL is waaay different and machines bring more money down here. I havent see 1 machine thats in similar condition to this one for less than about 22k and it was an open cab w/o a/c.

There's also something in me that loves backhoes. I grew up playing on them when I was younger and I've always wanted one of my own. I was actually going to buy one before I bought my skidsteer and I let my stepdad talk me out of it because he said the skidsteer was a more productive machine for alot of jobs, which I agree with. But the capacity of the backhoe just has me all giddy like a school girl.

 

[TEC]

Although I prefer cash sales, I'm thinking you could finance using the machine as collateral. Or just tell the wife we're eating Kraft Dinner till your old mans paid off, wouldn't take long to make $16k that way. Was that $16k with the move?

Tom

 

[Skideoder]

I would have to pay for the haul. Its 1k miles from central IL to Houston. I *think* I could probably get it moved for a grand. If all else fails, I'll put it up on Uship.com and see if I can find someone to bring it to me, lol.

What Im hoping is I could give him 8k up front and pay off the balance within the next year or so. If I can do that, I might be able to keep my skidsteer in addition to the 416. Guess that would be the best of both worlds.

 

[TEC]

Personally I don't like selling tools that make me money unless I'm upgrading that tool and in this case I would try to keep both.

Tom

 

[willie59]

If you purchase the 416, do you have a truck/trailer combo that can move it? Or are you planning on roading it to job sites?

 

[Skideoder]

Tec, I definitely agree. I try to never sell tools. This is definitely a hard decision to make.

As for transporting it. I have an F350 and a 30ft gooseneck trailer. Unfortunately, the gooseneck is only a 14k gvw and I will also need to get my CDL so I can transport the machine legally. The trailer can be upgraded to a dual tandem with larger axles fairly easily, so Im not worried about that. I figure all said and done, I'd be roughly 28k-30k lbs. I live out away from everything, and my jobs are all over the place, but roading is an option for some.

 

[muddauber]

Skidsteer/mini-ex combo is potent for many applications, but I would disagree that backhoes are obsolete, or should be. There are applications in which a backhoe still excels. I have owned 50-75 pieces of earthmoving equipment in the last twenty years including half a dozen minis and skidsteers each - various sizes, brands, etc. and five or more rubber tire backhoes too. Which skidsteer can run 20mph on the road with nearly a ton of gravel in the bucket? I haven't seen one, and am not sure i'd like the ride. Which mini can crane a 4' backhoe base into a hole? Sure, one exists, but by the time you get one that big you have nearly bought a backhoe, and lost the ease of transport that a mini offers. Which skidsteer would you plow snow on county roads all night with-if it snows where you are lol. All machines have their niche, depends on what kind of work you do. I like the idea of a small contractor with a skid steer and a mini because I know from experience that you put more money in your pocket with the little machines, but if the deal with you stepdad is there and the price is right I'd get the backhoe and run it to generate cash and then reconfigure your fleet if work justifies it. I'm partial to backhoes, started my company with a very used 580k and it worked well for me for years. If you are good on a backhoe you can do a lot with one.

 

[Dig_Texas]

I would have to pay for the haul. Its 1k miles from central IL to Houston. I *think* I could probably get it moved for a grand. If all else fails, I'll put it up on Uship.com and see if I can find someone to bring it to me, lol.

This is probably very low unless you are hauling yourself. I just had several pieces hauled to Texas and the absolute cheapest price I got was $3 per loaded mile. I used a guy from Flint, TX who was a little higher than the cheapest but was on-time and gave me updates every day. You can't go wrong with an AC cab in TX for the price.

 

[robin yates uk]

I've actually thought about that option too, and I do see alot more mini-ex's on jobsites nowadays. But I think I would have alot more $$ tied up into a CTL and a mini-ex than I would this 416 and thats one incentive to me. I figure if I dont make the $$ I want with the 416, I can always sell it or trade it in for more than I'll have in it. The market on machines down here vs. the market in IL is waaay different and machines bring more money down here. I havent see 1 machine thats in similar condition to this one for less than about 22k and it was an open cab w/o a/c.

There's also something in me that loves backhoes. I grew up playing on them when I was younger and I've always wanted one of my own. I was actually going to buy one before I bought my skidsteer and I let my stepdad talk me out of it because he said the skidsteer was a more productive machine for alot of jobs, which I agree with. But the capacity of the backhoe just has me all giddy like a school girl.

you know your Bobcat inside out, you are making money because of this.Buy a piece of equipment you are not familiar with and watch your bank balance drop.Stay with what you know because more experienced guys with a hoe will make you look an amateur. Good luck

 

[CRAFT]

.................. Unfortunately, the gooseneck is only a 14k gvw and I will also need to get my CDL so I can transport the machine legally. The trailer can be upgraded to a dual tandem with larger axles fairly easily, so Im not worried about that..............

Well speaking from experience of what I just went thru, unless your 14k trailer has a really narrow main frame you will NOT be able to put the heavier 10-12k axles under your trailer easily ...... the dually wheeled axles need more space, the spring or walking beam hangers are a lot further in than on the 6,7, and 8,000 lb axles check it out first ...... you'll probably find it alot easier to trade up to the 20 or 24,000 lb trailer, you'll also not have to deal with re-certification of the trailer ....... Good-luck with your choice !

 

[Skideoder]

you know your Bobcat inside out, you are making money because of this.Buy a piece of equipment you are not familiar with and watch your bank balance drop.Stay with what you know because more experienced guys with a hoe will make you look an amateur. Good luck

While this is true, you gotta start somewhere. While the hours I do have on a 'hoe are from a long time ago, as a kid, Im very good at picking up and learning the technique. Guess thats also an added bonus of being self employed. No one to answer to but myself, lol.

I feel like Im all over the map. I could step up into a larger skidsteer pretty easily and be out of pocket less $. But is that machine gonna produce that much more for me like a backhoe would.

My other issue, which I cant remember if I touched on or not. But is the actual work itself. I've only been in business here for roughly 6mo. and its up and down. The jobs Im getting are good paying, but Im only getting 1-2/mo. But this is a whole other topic.