Starting out with a backhoe

[stumpjumper83]

So I'm going to start out on my own with an excavating business. I've been purchasing farm equipment, fixing it and sellin it to generate the capital I need for equipment. So this fall after the sale of my current tractor, a Massey 1105 & a New Holland Haybine, and the sale of some need to cut timber off some property. I'll have between 20 & 30 k with which I intend to purchase a backhoe. The features I want is 4x4, cab, e-hoe. I'm partial to the case brand, but others are being considered. I'd rather have an older hoe that has been well cared for rather than a beat, newer model. Here is a link to what I'm lookin at. After purchasing, I plan to add a thumb to it as well. http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6375065&GUID=E8BA8CDA746E46478313F23BF11A2794

So here is the question, if the money was yours to spend, what would you do? I plan to use the machine for septics, foundation repair, stump removal. I need to put a water crossing on the same land the timber is comming from as well develop a spring and do some light land clearing. Basically the machine wil be used for property maintence around the family farm as well as operating it for hire. In the winter the machine is going to do some snow removal work.

 

[BKrois]

I wouldn't rule out a 4 in 1 bucket if you're going to get a backhoe. It makes the backhoe that much versatile for grading, grabbing stumps/rocks, etc. For the price range you're looking to spend, you should be able to find something in the mid-lates 90s with some options.

 

[joeeye59]

It sounds like you are going to need a few pieces of key equipment to be versatile in the jobs you'll take on, because a thought came to mind when you mentioned installing septic systems.... from what I understand is you cannot drive over the top of a newly installed septic system as well as an existing septic system with a heavy machine like that Case 580... But being I never did one I'm not sure how they are installed... but keep in mind where you'll be driving your backhoe on the jobs you'll take on because you can't drive everywhere with them because they leave huge tire ruts...

I'm basically saying for starting out what I would do if it was my money is to think about the kind of jobs I'll be taking on and go thru in my head what I'm able to do with the machines I have, this may have you rethink how much you want to spend on a backhoe so you can have more funds to buy light weight machines to drive on lawns.... there are a lot of people that don't want huge deep tire marks on their lawns that a Case 580 will make... but you really do need that size machine for taking on a lot of other jobs.... So thats what I'd do is to think thru typical jobs and what equipment you'll need, like I said you might want to spread your funds around a little thinner allowing you to buy a variation of equipment to start with, it don't mean you can't add on as you go too...

So this is what I would do if it was me and my money, because I just bought a backhoe (JD 310c) for a project in my yard and I wished I paid less for it so I was able to buy other equipment, like a thumb for it, and to have bought another machine to finish the grading job.... hope this helps...

 

[stumpjumper83]

Joeeye59, When working with septic systems, your either swaping the tank for a larger size, or replacing it becase it broke, the machine needs to have the ability to lif tthe old tank out and set the new one in. Sometimes they are plastic, sometimes they are concrete. So the machine needs to have some weight. For the water crossing I'll lead to be able to load out between 300 & 500 ton of scrap stone from the flagstone quarry across the road. The spring development will require about 800 feet of trench, and a tank set there as well. I also will probably dig down to a house foundation to repair the wall and the same thing on a machine shed. And while I would like to have a 315 cat excavator, a 6k minni hoe, a cat 938 wheel loader, a D5, and a skid steer, the money just would not stretch that far. Eventually I want to expand with more equipment, but just a backhoe for now, might not be the ideal machine for everything, but it can do just about anythign with the right mindset and a little skill & patience. Besides its a one man show, so more machines mean, more machines waiting to work.

 

[Preppypyro]

Sounds like you are pretty much doing exactly what i am right now. I bought a year newer of a machine and it looks almost identical to the one you posted. Beware though, the sk's have some wiring problems and one some the floor rots out, but so far mine has been really good.

Keep in mind too you have to buy a trailer and a truck thats capable of towing it around.

What i am doing for that is I bought a pintle hitch trailer that needed a little work, and Im going to be buying a t/a dump truck to tow it around, then i can haul/move dirt if I need to, or just run the truck if i cant find work with the hoe.

 

[joe from ne]

I just wanted to throw out a idea. You can rent any machine you need for any job. You might want to go out and get some work and figure the machine cost in to the job. Your machine is going to cost you no matter what. You can also try different brand machines. Get to try out the business you will be dealing with in future for customer service. Will be a little more with renting but you can get a newer bigger machine. Plus you can get several kinds of work and try out different machines and figure out which one would be better to own yourself. You have enough money to do it this way but if you spend all your money on a machine and have a 10000 dollar breakdown you are in trouble. I rent machines all the time and in fact allmost always have some rented machine on hand. You can't own everything. Don't have to worry about breakdowns on them and can get new machines every time.

 

[stumpjumper83]

well I found a Super L II today... http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6391295&GUID=64B3B17E1BC3402FB8B74916F0676F9E
Might go take a look at it. Not quite ready to buy yet. As for transporting the machine if the jobs are inside of 10 miles one way, I'm using high gear, farther than that and I'll hire it moved. I Have a decent customer base in the area as well as several graveyards. after I sell the property that the water crossing and spring set up are going in, a truck and trailer(s) are in order, and we will see, maybe another piece of equipment. Speaking of truck and trailers, anyone using a tandem axle semi w/ a gooseneck flatbed, and a 28' dump, rather than a regular dumptruck and a tag along trailer?

 

[cat d9]

If you have some work lined up I would rent a machine till ya get your feet wet. I did that and found out I needed a 22 ton excavator instead of a tractor back hoe. It's lots easier to get out of a rented machine than an owned one.

 

[joe from ne]

When I bought my first backhoe I tried to get the best machine I could aford. I found out that it wasn't the machine I ended up needing. It worked fine for a while and I didn't have very many problems so lucked out. It was only about 10 years old. I now find that I don't let my backhoes get very old as much for the new features and operating cost's as anything. I also needed several features such as aux hydralics for running things on hoe and four in one bucket which I will never again be without.
As far as transport. I do it both ways as I have both types of trucks. It is not very practical though to use a heavy truck with trailer and then go get your dump and so forth. Much better to drive to job with dump and tag and do work and drive home. You have to watch all costs as much as possible as they add up fast. I don't know if you have checked on insurance yet but it may suprise you what it can be. Also if you hire a helper you open a new can of worms with work comp, SS, and such. We do a lot of work but not a lot left after fuel and all. Last Monday alone I had over 30.000.00 in breakdowns. That was just one day. Then the down time on those two machines cost me another 3000. That was just Monday!

 

[KSSS]

I would plan for a dump truck, trailer and hoe at the same time. It is not very feasible to hire out truck power for every job and most all back hoe work requires material going in or out. Also there is the need to carry lasers, shovels, ABS and PVS parts, etc. Hard to get all that in the cab of a hoe, not to mention not having a way to run for the 4" 45 deg. elbow you did not plan on needing. Not to mention that with back hoe type work you end up mobilizing several times a day. Big PINA trying to line up a transport several times through out the day, not to mention the costs. Roading it to every job isn't a big time saver either aside from the ability to carry tools of the trade.

One last point to make when starting out. You get one chance to make good initial impression in the area in which you will work. If guys know that you cant truck material in and out they call someone that can, thinking it is cheaper to hire the guy that has his trucking "in house" which is some times true. Show up with a truck, trailer and nice older hoe and you have what you need to make a good go of it.

Good luck

 

[stumpjumper83]

Good point ksss.

"One last point to make when starting out. You get one chance to make good initial impression in the area in which you will work. If guys know that you cant truck material in and out they call someone that can, thinking it is cheaper to hire the guy that has his trucking "in house" which is some times true. Show up with a truck, trailer and nice older hoe and you have what you need to make a good go of it."

 

[joe from ne]

KSSS I agree with you on having the whole rig but if you remember he said he is going to start with 20 to 30 thousand. He has to have Ins so there go's at least a downpayment of a couple thousand. If he spreads the rest around keeping a couple thousand for operating expense he can't afford a very good anything. If he starts in debt that is a killer. When I started I invested 25000 and didn't have anthing good just several pieces that were Okay. Work started slow the first year and glad I didn't owe any money. I roaded my backhoe everywhere and hired my heavy equipment hauled. No dump truck. Didn't have a problem hiring one. Within 3 years I had over a million dollars invested. If I would have borrowed the first year I would have been in trouble

 

[Bellboy]

I'm not from around anywhere near where you guys are from, so is that Lancaster in America or UK? I really don't think that you will need a truck for less than 10 miles (1.3km x 1.0Mi) I've seen guys road their machines 20 km or more. A flatbed for one tlb is just a hassle in my opinion. Even a trailer behind a dump truck. If you want to get a truck, get an Isuzu with drop sides or something like that that can dump as well. Just thinking outside of the triangle.

 

[stumpjumper83]

bellboy, lancaster is both a county and a city in s.e. pa. I'll be movin to Potter county though to start my business. And the 30k is just to buy the hoe. And no I don't plan on being completely reliant on the hoe for income my first year. I have a fair pile of around the farm work for the backhoe, as well as a piece of property to develop for two cabin sites, with 4wheeler trails, septics, and fresh water, and if I feel like it, a pond, we will see. For that project, I'll be renting a d6 or 7 for the week...

 

[DunlapsLawnCare]

rent the equipment till u find out what key peaces you'll need ?

 

[Bellboy]

bellboy, lancaster is both a county and a city in s.e. pa. I'll be movin to Potter county though to start my business. And the 30k is just to buy the hoe. And no I don't plan on being completely reliant on the hoe for income my first year. I have a fair pile of around the farm work for the backhoe, as well as a piece of property to develop for two cabin sites, with 4wheeler trails, septics, and fresh water, and if I feel like it, a pond, we will see. For that project, I'll be renting a d6 or 7 for the week...

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