Stabilizer auto up detent doesn't hold control

[justsomedude]

Hello everybody.

Hopefully someone here can give me a little guidance.

Cat 420eit
SN Dan00662

Problem: stabilizer auto up function not working correctly. Cylinder will move when activated by the control but the magnetic detent on one of the controls does not hold the control in place. I have put a screwdriver against the magnet and it does energize and become magnetic but when using the control the magnet feels really weak and does not stick. I have swapped the power wires for the other detent next to it which is working properly but it didn't seem to make a difference. That leads me to suspect the coil is bad / underpowered or something in the actual valve is pushing back hard enough to keep it from holding. Do these coils get weak over time or could there be another factor here? I'm unable to find a part number for this coil in the parts manual. I'm seeing a similar situation with the detent for the float function but not sure if its related. Any one had any experience with this? Is there somewhere else i should check?

 

[justsomedude]

I checked the voltage and got 11v

 

[HarleyHappy]

Not enough juice, you have a voltage loss somewhere.

 

[justsomedude]

Not enough juice, you have a voltage loss somewhere.

Kind of what i was suspecting. Maybe a dirty pin on some connector relay or fuse somewhere. Do you happen to know if there is a specific fuse or connection that provides 12v to the system?

 

[HarleyHappy]

Not sure there are fuses on that, should be a relay.
I have no idea where they are though, usually under the dash.
A manual would be the best investment for any machine.

 

[Nige]

I checked the voltage and got 11v

Engine running or stopped.?
If it was with the engine stopped try repeating the test with it running.

 

[justsomedude]

Engine running or stopped.?
If it was with the engine stopped try repeating the test with it running.

Didn't recall if the engine was on when i checked it so i rechecked it. got 13v. magnet still turns on and will hold a screw driver but not the control lever. I also located and tested the input and output voltage of the timer relay. It seems normal as far as i can tell.

is there any way something with the pilot valve could be pushing back too hard on the control and that makes it not stick? I notice there are these little adjustment nuts on the control that push against the actual valves. If that is adjusted wrong could it cause the springs in the valve to push back too hard on the control and overcome the strength of the magnet? Grasping at straws a bit here.

 

[Nige]

I'll send you a copy of the electrical schematic. At least with that you'll know where power comes from and where it goes.

13v still sounds low if it was with the engine running. The alternator should put out around 14.5v if it's in good shape. With the engine off the battery should read somewhere 12.5-12.7v if it's holding a good charge. Possibility that you have a voltage drop somewhere.?

 

[justsomedude]

I'll send you a copy of the electrical schematic. At least with that you'll know where power comes from and where it goes.

13v still sounds low if it was with the engine running. The alternator should put out around 14.5v if it's in good shape. With the engine off the battery should read somewhere 12.5-12.7v if it's holding a good charge. Possibility that you have a voltage drop somewhere.?

Thanks Nige. That's a newer much more fancy one then what i've been working with. Very cool of you. You're always so helpful and everyone here appreciates your willingness to help.

In fairness i simplified the voltage reading to 13 but i think it was 13.75 or something like that. Still well below 14.5 so definitely something to investigate. In terms of battery weakness, during testing for a number of things I've started and stopped the machine a number of times and used the lights without giving it time to run and properly recharge. Not sure if that would cause the battery standing voltage to be sitting a bit low or if that's going to be a dirty connection or just old batteries. She starts every time like a charm though even in the cold.

Cant easily get to the alternator right now to check it as when i was fooling with figuring out why the float detent also isn't sticking when the machine is running (same symptoms) something in the loader valve bank started leaking on the top of the valve bank. So raising the arms to get to the alt probably should wait till i have that leak figured out as i don't know if this leak will cause the loader arms to drop or if its something specific to when i ask it to float. I'm not super clear on how it floats in terms of if there is electrical involved there that might allow a leak if it was not getting enough volts. That's probably going to end up being the next post. I'm only one guy so its hard to actuate controls and see what's happening under the machine at the same time.

I guess until then i can meter the battery, clean up the main ground contacts and any contacts in the power distribution and try that adjuster screw on the controls. worst case its preventative maintaince best case it solves this voltage drop.

 

[justsomedude]

Not sure there are fuses on that, should be a relay.
I have no idea where they are though, usually under the dash.
A manual would be the best investment for any machine.

Hi HarleyHappy. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. I did end up finding this relay. It was tie strapped in place just below and to the right of the fuse panel. Found it by touching the controls and feeling for which one was clicking. Attached is a snip of the parts manual with the location circled just in case anyone else is ever looking for the stabilizer timer relay part number 173-7003 .