Specs all over the place on simular machines.

[imjustdave]

Unfortunately I'm a very data driven type and look at numbers a bit too much I have to admit.
I'm looking to get another Mini Ex 50 - 55 size and looking at the spec sheets, does anyone feel like specs are all over the place? In comparing breakout force, I can't believe they are measuring the same way, a lot of specs are very similar but breakout seems excessive. I can't see how 1 machine has hundreds sometimes 1500 - 2k more when most machine from multiple brands are very similar in dimensions ETC.

Here is a good Example I found between Cat and Yanmar

Example
Vio55
11,850lb machine, 47HP
Max digging force 9,419lbs

Cat 305CR
11,016lb 45 ISO HP and 48 SAE HP
Digging Force 11,061 lbf

1,642 lbs difference? Can this be right? My thoughts are your pulling on a stump and 1k+ lbs is significant. If I put a force scale on a tooth would I really see the differance?

 

[uffex]

Good day Dave
You are correct, the breakout force comes in a few flavours, the bucket teeth break out - arm force break out. The former is dependent on the size of the cylinder - how much rotation is sacrificed for additional force due to the geometry. Quick couplers will cost breakout. From a comparison perspective, I would suggest test-driving the machines you are considering. Maybe you can find owners nearby to give a reference.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[redneckracin]

Trying to get the MAX specs on one measurement isn't the whole story either. I would think the smoothness of the machine and the ease of maintenance would mean more over the life of the machine than a theoretical value. Also, I would hands down take a hydraulic thumb over nothing or a mechanical one regardless of the max values.

 

[imjustdave]

Trying to get the MAX specs on one measurement isn't the whole story either. I would think the smoothness of the machine and the ease of maintenance would mean more over the life of the machine than a theoretical value. Also, I would hands down take a hydraulic thumb over nothing or a mechanical one regardless of the max values.

For sure Thumbs on an excavator are like those on a human.... can't image not having 2.

I also agree smoothness is EPIC helpful and very important. I have rented some 40 sized kubota machines and after having to press the button on the dash every time after a start for the aux hydraulics to work, my next complaint is they are smooth up to a point and then they buck like a bronco. The last 3 I have ran they have been ok and then if your trying to do some mass x of material it just gets out of control as the pumps can't keep up. usually when trying to do multiple movements boom stick bucket near or at full demand. I feel limited on the Kubota unfortunately as the nearest dealer is 2 miles away. Basically have to let go and let everything settle down.

Never ran a CAT
Yanmar has been limited to gravel lot and virtual digging, 1 at a dealer and 1 used machine, The reminded me of my kobelco.

JD and Cat in my area are all owned by 1 company in the PNW so price shopping is impossible and honestly I never have felt like they really want my business I understand I'm small potato's but 1 or 200 units should still be treated fairly.



Previous machine was a Kobelco 50 loved the multiple pumps on that unit.

 

[KSSS]

Kobelco makes a really nice mini ex. I agree. Why not just get a Kobelco 55? As to breakout numbers, Yanmar's breakout numbers have historically been low compared to others. Takeuchi is typically pretty high. I don't know if the numbers are legit or not, except I can say this, my Taki TB257 which is the newest version of the 153. The breakout on the 257 is lower than the 153 and it is noticeable. So noticeable that I contacted Taki about it. I think it is most likely that everyone is running a bucket with a tight tip radius to get the best number, the type of coupler that the machine has could be playing a part. However I don't think that 1500 pounds of breakout spread between machines would be that out of the ordinary.

 

[MG84]

Interesting you say that about the Kubotas not being smooth, I’ve run many brands and models and always thought Kubota had some of the smoothest and best feeling controls out there. With that being said, they are very responsive, if you have the throttle wide open it moves as fast as you move the sticks, which for some operators can make it seem jumpy.

As to the breakout force on different makes, in my experience there IS as big of a difference in the real world as on paper. Some have very weak bucket breakout force whereas others could almost be deemed excessive. A while back I rented a Case CX57c and it was so weak I took it back within 30min of unloading it off the trailer. It did have an aftermarket pin grabber quick attach which wasn’t doing it any favors. Rented a Tak Tb260 next and the breakout force was tremendous, night and day difference from the case.

 

[skyking1]

I am a firm advocate of demo or renting. The numbers mean nothing to me, beyond the gross weight and picking charts. Those numbers are handy. The rest is so much vapor as you are telling us now.
I run a 35G Deere with cab and angle blade.
I have run the same size Cat, and the Case too lately.
As pointed out above, I was not thrilled with the Case. It did seem notably weaker.

 

[Dutchboy]

I was told (by the dealer, consider the source) that that QCs are standard on the Yanmar so they lose some leverage on the charts because most other brands get their ratings without the QC. I would definitely give Yanmar a chance, my friend has one and breakout has never crossed my mind while running it.

 

[redneckracin]

I recently rented a yanmar machine and I would rent another. I have rented bobcats the most and kubotas 2nd most. Of the two, the "locking" of the bobcat blade has made me appreciate it. Kubotas always seemed like the blade won't hold the machine if you hook into something while digging.

I always thought the kubotas had the nicest looking inside cabs.

None of the machines failed and I'll continue to rent until someone hands me a machine or I win the lottery.... Its pretty tough to justify buying for a DIY guy like myself when its under $500 for a weekend.

 

[imjustdave]

While I agree the Quick coupler seems to be standard on the Yanmar ... Never seen one without and suspect you would have to special order it to not have it, the published chart rating is WITHOUT the Quick change coupler.

 

[imjustdave]

Does anyone know HOW they test and or if everyone tests the same way? Is there a standard?
If it is measured at the tip of the bucket... for sure bucket size is EPIC impact on the number if you use a smaller size.
Need to find a 55 to rent

 

[uffex]

Good day
Most of the data has been generated by computers making calculations, if you are interested I can get this for you.
Kind regards
Uffex

 

[MG84]

While I agree the Quick coupler seems to be standard on the Yanmar ... Never seen one without and suspect you would have to special order it to not have it, the published chart rating is WITHOUT the Quick change coupler.

The bucket force on a Vio 55 without a quick coupler is ~9400lbs, with coupler is ~7400lbs, which is less than a lot of 35 size excavators.

 

[imjustdave]

Good day
Most of the data has been generated by computers making calculations, if you are interested I can get this for you.
Kind regards
Uffex

love to see what info you have available

 

[uffex]

Good day Dave
See your mail.
Kind regards
Uffex