Snorkel Pro 126

[barklee]

So i am still having problems with this machine. I have put it on the back burner since last winter and it is still driving me crazy. I started a thread a while ago called Cummins injection pump help.
To start from the beginning, i was pulling this machine around the shop to get it ready for a job. I pulled it up to the door shut it off and went in to get some tools. When i came back out i re-started the machine, lowered the jack and extended the axles. I was going to adjust the swing control and tried to run the functions and everything that runs the boom was dead. The EMS system was tripping and locking everything out. I tried to look everything over for obvious problems and couldnt find any. I called Snorkel a couple of days later and the tech walked me through a few things to try which i did with no success. It always seemed to me that there was a weak ground wire or a drop in voltage somewhere i couldnt find.
Anyway i went to work on it again a few weeks later and the machine wouldnt start (which was never an issue). After going through everything i knew to do i called a mechanic. The mechanic and the people who replied to my cummins thread said the injection pump needed rebuilt. I had that done and replaced it and still nothing. So that brings us to present and i still have no idea what to do. I dont want to load this thing up and take it to a shop (which is my only option given the companies around here who know this machine) and spend 20,000 to find out. I have a little time to work on this and i have no idea where to start.
Things i have tried: Blew all lines out from injection pump to tank, cleaned tank and replaced fuel, replaced batteries, replaced fuel filter, blew out injection lines, replaced some fuel lines, ran a jumper wire to the injection pump
Questions: Does the computer or EMS system have something to do with this not starting? I have tried to run a jumper wire to the fuel shut off solenoid. How likely is it that the injectors are bad? The machine cranks a little hard and slow even with new batteries, what causes this?
I am totally stumped so i am willing to try about anything........ Thank you!!

 

[willie59]

I feel for ya Barklee, I've had to deal with a couple of Pro 126 units in the past. Quirky machines. No, quirky bastards is more appropriate. The least little anomaly will make the EMS turn flips and shut down operations. Go through all the diagnostics, find no faults, and miracle of miracles, the dang thing works, even though you fixed nothing, just for it to flip out again for no apparent reason.

As for the engine, it's been a long time since I've worked with those machines, but I don't recall the EMS having anything to do with the engine, it just locks out hyd functions. There's likely some form of high coolant temp or low oil pressure that would kill engine, but if you've put voltage jumper to fuel solenoid, that would rule out those as possible causes.

I don't recall the Cummins engine thread you posted, but given what you've posted here, you pretty much said it was a running machine, engine anyway, and it sat for a few weeks. Suddenly, it wouldn't start. I fail to see how an injection pump could go south on a running engine from simply sitting for a few weeks. If you put voltage jumper on that fuel solenoid, it should fire off. If not, there's something not right, and I'm not saying problem is with injection pump itself.

Slow cranking even with new batteries? Cables are always important, ground as well as positive battery cable, but you've probably already checked those. Problem can be starter as well. I've seen plenty of those starters on Cummins B series engines get worn inside (poor brushes and commutator) that really drag when cranking, pull a lot of amps. Have a freshen up done on starter, and they crank proper then.

I hope you get that thing sorted out. But then, I could never get a Pro 126 fully sorted out.

 

[barklee]

Any bright ideas on getting the thing running? I will say that we dont use this machine very much and the fuel i removed from the tank was nasty (smelled bad) would that cause any issues?

 

[willie59]

Well, I not up to speed on just what happened. Running machine, then it wasn't running, rebuilt injection pump, did it ever run after rebuild? Have you cracked open the bleeder screw in the fuel line coming from filter and operated hand primer pump to make sure fuel is there? Have you put voltage (and ground if 2 terminals) to fuel shutdown solenoid? Did you hear solenoid "click" when you put power and ground to it? Did you crack open at least one fuel line at injection pump to make sure fuel was coming out delivery valve?

Very very rotten fuel may cause a no start, but from what you've stated, it's really not sat all that long since it was last running, hard to imagine fuel could foul that quickly.

 

[barklee]

Well, I not up to speed on just what happened. Running machine, then it wasn't running, rebuilt injection pump, did it ever run after rebuild? Have you cracked open the bleeder screw in the fuel line coming from filter and operated hand primer pump to make sure fuel is there? Have you put voltage (and ground if 2 terminals) to fuel shutdown solenoid? Did you hear solenoid "click" when you put power and ground to it? Did you crack open at least one fuel line at injection pump to make sure fuel was coming out delivery valve?

Very very rotten fuel may cause a no start, but from what you've stated, it's really not sat all that long since it was last running, hard to imagine fuel could foul that quickly.

It never ran after the rebuild. The mechanic actually put the new pump on the machine, changed filters, primed system, cracked injectors, etc. I dont know if he ever actually got fuel out of the injectors though. I know i blew out all lines and primed system up to the filter assembly, i never checked the injection lines. I am not sure solenoid clicked when i put power to it, but i think it did. There's never anyone at the shop when i tear into these projects to help me.
I think the mechanic was tired of trouble shooting this machine and basically said i think maybe the injectors are bad (now leave me alone). I think that is BS, it has to be something simple. What is required to make this run? Fuel, compression, air, power to fuel solenoid...... What else to check? I will more thoroughly check the fuel system to ensure there is fuel to the injectors and clicking at solenoid in the next few days.
thanks

 

[willie59]

LoL, I certainly hope you're using the term "mechanic" very loosely barklee.

Can you provide us with some good pics of injection pump and views of fuel components, lift pump, filters, etc?

 

[barklee]

LoL, I certainly hope you're using the term "mechanic" very loosely barklee.

Can you provide us with some good pics of injection pump and views of fuel components, lift pump, filters, etc?

yep, might take me a few days but i will get it. This "mechanic" is a big truck guy and i dont think he really even wanted to do the job. he stays booked just doing that type work so i dont judge him too hard...... he was just trying to maintain his truck business with us is my guess.

 

[barklee]

I had a minute to mess with this today. I crawled under the machine and tried to put my ear to the fuel shut off solenoid. I ran a jumper from the battery and i couldnt hear or feel any action. Called the company that rebuilt the pump and they did not replace this when they rebuilt the pump. I am hoping that is the problem. They are going to come out Friday and check it out so i have my fingers crossed.

 

[willie59]

Keep us posted.

 

[barklee]

Keep us posted.

OK, fuel injection company came out today and check the shut off solenoid. They got that working and got fuel to the injectors. The problem is that when you crank the thing over it dogs the starter after a few seconds. The hoses on the hydraulic pump are flexing like they are under serious pressure. Seems to me that the small rectangle shaped part on top of the pump with the 1/4" hose is an unloader to maintain pressure and keep the lines from exploding and regulating pressure from the pump. Do you suppose this is shot? Can it be repaired or cleared of a blockage or sticking action? Any help would be great. I think this may actually be the problem! This is a 2001 year machine. Thanks

 

[willie59]

That little gizmo that has the 1/4" line on it is the "pump compensator", it's what controls pump output by sensing the demand of the machine hyd system, it does this via the 1/4" line, aptly called "sense line". Sounds like your pump is staying at full stroke, compensator is not "de-stroking" pump. If I recall correctly, you disconnect that sense line, plug the line with appropriate hyd fitting plug, crank engine. If pump stays at full stroke, likely a problem with compensator. If it doesn't stay at full stroke, problem somewhere else, likely problem with pump control valve.

 

[barklee]

That little gizmo that has the 1/4" line on it is the "pump compensator", it's what controls pump output by sensing the demand of the machine hyd system, it does this via the 1/4" line, aptly called "sense line". Sounds like your pump is staying at full stroke, compensator is not "de-stroking" pump. If I recall correctly, you disconnect that sense line, plug the line with appropriate hyd fitting plug, crank engine. If pump stays at full stroke, likely a problem with compensator. If it doesn't stay at full stroke, problem somewhere else, likely problem with pump control valve.

Okay. i took that compensator off the pump earlier. I was told to bump the pressure setting back and forth a few times to try to free things up but i couldnt get the screw to turn at all. I will get a plug and see whats what tomorrow. I was thinking that this was the culprit. I have a TB60 at the shop, i might try to swap the parts if they look the same...... think that will work?

 

[willie59]

If they had the same pump, would likely work.

 

[barklee]

If they had the same pump, would likely work.

I removed the smaller part on the top today and swapped it from the tb60. No luck, no change. What about the part with the stud and nut? I was going to attempt to swap this as well but it seemed to be very messy given there is no oil shut off on the hydraulic tank. Is this the problem maybe? I have very little idea what im looking at here so i am a bit lost. The top part i removed appears to be the pressure adjustment and the lower part appears to be the unloader, is that correct? I attached a pic for reference

 

[willie59]

I can't see enough of that pump to tell what it is.

 

[barklee]

I can't see enough of that pump to tell what it is.

Tough to get a good picture. Try this one.

 

[willie59]

I don't recognize that particular pump, can't really comment on it's components. You might try to contact Snorkel USA and see if they have technical info on that pump. I've called them several times in the past and they've been pretty good at getting info from them.

 

[barklee]

Yea they are very helpful. I tried looking in the parts and service manuals online. They dont show a good view of whats what or even give a part number that i can tell on the listing. I was told by the dealer that snorkel parts are at least 3-4 months out of stock and up to 8 months! That is crazy, hope i dont need anything.....

 

[barklee]

I have another question, this is for a Snorkel TB60. The one i swapped parts on today. It has been sitting for several months without being used and i moved it this morning and the house wont swing. Not from the ground or platform controls. When running it from the ground it will swing about an inch in each direction but thats it. Never had any issues before so its a bit strange. I was thinking maybe someone installed the travel pin when it was brought back but it doesnt have one. Any ideas on this?

 

[willie59]

It's been quite some time since I've worked on Snorkel machines, I recall they have complex wiring systems, kind of hard to follow. I would start by checking voltage at swing valve coil, going through the electrical system first before I look at hyd issues. Start by troubleshooting using ground controls as opposed to checking using platform controls, much easier.