Sizing pull type equipment to crawler vs wheeled tractors

[MG84]

Looking to purchase a sheeps foot roller and pull type scraper sometime in the next year or two for various projects I have up coming. I’d like to size them to the equipment I already have if possible. Looking to be able to use each piece interchangeably between my largest field tractor and my dozer, depending on conditions.

Tractor is a Farmall 656 diesel T/A, on 15.5-38 rubber, weighs about 9500lbs, two sets of rear hyd remotes.

Dozer is a Case 450c wide track, 20” pads, 70hp, 13,000lbs, will have one set of remotes.

As for the equipment I’m thinking a 2.5-3yd dolly wheel scraper is all the tractor will handle, which might be good for the dozer as well or maybe too small, IDK? None of the mfgs list hp requirements for track type tractors on their small scrapers. Only experience with pull type scrapers is a 1.5yd roll over type I use behind my 40hp IH 454, and some seat time running a 5yd behind a 150hp FWA Allis Chalmers 8050.

Sheeps foot rollers I have no idea about but I know they pull hard. I know I don’t have enough power for any of the 8’ wide units, maybe a 4-5’ unit?

I realize this stuff is comically small to some of you but I think the principles are the same regardless of scale. Anyone have any real world experience with pulling a scraper behind a small 70hp dozer? Any rules of thumb on equipment size of wheel vs track type tractors? Projects that I’ll be using the equipment on include building some small ponds, building pads and farm roads, cleaning out silted in grass waterways and other agricultural drainage work. Thanks in advace.

 

[JaredV]

This is my 504 and Hoelscher DB6 which is 1.8 yards heaped when equipped with the apron. 6 foot cutting edge. The tractor was a gas which is a joke of an engine so I put a diesel 544 engine in it so it's an honest 50hp. It handles the scraper quite well but wouldn't want much less power or much more capacity. I could put front weights on and it would do even better but I purposely don't so I'm less likely to tear up the scraper.

I think D4s were matched with 4 yard scrapers so your 450 would have no trouble with a 3 yarder.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think if your tractor is 9500lbs. I think it would pull a 8ft sheep's foot or pad foot packer fairly easy as long as the ground wasn't real soft. Most of them are filled with diesel and you could always take a little out. I think your tractor would pull a 2 to 3yd. scraper as well. It may be worth looking for a slightly smaller scraper so you could pull it with your tractor most if the time. It would be much faster transporting and save expensive undercarriage wear on your dozer. You could use the dozer if required. I like that Hoelscher scraper. I think they make a few different styles as well. Not sure if they are the same style I looked at a couple years ago that used the 3pt. hitch to set the cutting depth. This would make it much easier to set the same depth repeatedly and not have to look back all time to adjust using a hyd. cylinder. Also good for spreading out the load when dumping.

 

[MG84]

Thanks for the replies. I like those DB6 scrapers, I too was looking at them before I found my small 1.5yd Soilmover roll over scraper.

Sounds like I’m on the right track with my size estimates. My experience with scrapers, at least in our soils, is you put the maximum amount of power in front of them that the mfg recommends. Whats hanging me up is the amount of drawbar pull available from each unit. According to the Nebraska tests the 656 has a maximum drawbar pull of 7500lbs, I believe that test was on pavement. According to my case literature the 450c has a maximum drawbar pull of 15,000lbs (calculated). Someone correct me if I’m wrong but in good soil conditions won’t a track type tractor drawbar pull equal to it’s weight? If so that’s still probably double what the 656 will pull. So I guess I need to find a scraper that the tractor will handle but is strong enough the dozer won’t rip the tongue off lol.

 

[JaredV]

From my limited observations I think you can figure 25-30hp per yard with a wheel tractor. Maybe find a scraper that's in between the dozer and tractor? You can pull the scraper that's closer matched to the dozer with the 656 if you're okay with less than full loads. A smaller scraper will only do it's capacity whichever it's hooked up to. A bigger one will do more yardage with the dozer and probably equal to a smaller one behind the tractor. And you have the option of top loading if you need to move it longer distances with the tractor.

 

[Welder Dave]

I thought there's only a few dozers that will pull their own weight. A lot depends on the soil type and moisture your on.

 

[chidog]

Big dozers anyway, will pull more than their own weight. Flat ground a smaller dozer moves a big one just fine.

 

[Bluox]

Any track tractor will usually have at least 1/3 more drawbar pull than they weight.
Bad Bob

 

[Welder Dave]

It depends on a few factors.

 

[1693TA]

Any track tractor will usually have at least 1/3 more drawbar pull than they weight.
Bad Bob

This is what I've been told also as a generalization. Wear in the grouser bars, track pad style, ground pressure all are a player along with soil conditions.

 

[1693TA]

I like that little scraper pan and have never seen one that small. Ballpark what does something like that cost? What kind of availability used? I could find use for one on a limited basis.

 

[cuttin edge]

Neat little rig. Lot of trips.

 

[JaredV]

I like that little scraper pan and have never seen one that small. Ballpark what does something like that cost? What kind of availability used? I could find use for one on a limited basis.

Mine was a little over 8 grand in 2019. The apron is an option. I wasn't planning to buy a new one but I couldn't find anything small halfway near. I see smaller units like this or a little bigger on Tractorhouse. This one is the biggest Hoelscher makes, 6 foot cut. The others are basically the same, just narrower at 4 and 5 feet. I've moved 800-1000 yards with mine since the fall of 2019.

Here's a video a friend made:

 

[Bluox]

Mine was a little over 8 grand in 2019. The apron is an option. I wasn't planning to buy a new one but I couldn't find anything small halfway near. I see smaller units like this or a little bigger on Tractorhouse. This one is the biggest Hoelscher makes, 6 foot cut. The others are basically the same, just narrower at 4 and 5 feet. I've moved 800-1000 yards with mine since the fall of 2019.

Here's a video a friend made:

Your friend should be dropped kicked in the nards for letting that kid ride on the finder of that tractor.
Bad Bob

 

[1693TA]

Many farmers in this area would be kicked in the nads if they didn't let the kiddos ride on the fenders. Kinda like riding in the bed of an open pickup truck. Takes a bit of common sense of course, (I know that is lacking in many) but many raised with common sense tend to inherit the traits.

 

[cuttin edge]

my siblings and I, used to go up the road on my grandfather's old TEA20. My brother would drive. One on each rear fender, and 2 standing on the draw bar. We would go up the main road to my uncle's, about 3 miles.

 

[Welder Dave]

It only takes a split second to have a tragedy that can't be reversed. There is no common sense in letting kids ride on equipment that is working. There is a bit of a difference (not much) if you're giving a kid a slow ride where you are holding onto them. A kid fell out of a cabbed tractor up here several years ago and was run over and killed. Somehow the door latch got bumped and it was too late. The tractor was being driven at high speed on the road. I was very close to reporting a former neighbor for putting their young kid in a dangerous situation. They had just got a new zero turn mower and the kids mom (totally careless) was cutting the grass at about 10mph while trying to hold the kid maybe 2 or 3 years old with one arm. Riding mower accidents involving kids are one of the most commonly reported of all kids injuries.

 

[4x4]

Your friend should be dropped kicked in the nards for letting that kid ride on the finder of that tractor.
Bad Bob

You are wrong.

 

[Bluox]

You are wrong.

Tell me that after you help shovel a 4 year old into a rubber bag that fell off a tractor and was brush hogged.
Any one who would put a child in that harm's way is an absolute Moron.
Bad Bob

 

[1693TA]

Mine was a little over 8 grand in 2019. The apron is an option. I wasn't planning to buy a new one but I couldn't find anything small halfway near. I see smaller units like this or a little bigger on Tractorhouse. This one is the biggest Hoelscher makes, 6 foot cut. The others are basically the same, just narrower at 4 and 5 feet. I've moved 800-1000 yards with mine since the fall of 2019.

Here's a video a friend made:

I was into the implement dealer this morning servicing diesel "Grasshopper" brand mowers for delivery and asked about one of these small pans. They had heard of the name, but never sold any of their products.

They are going to reach out to the vendor and see what I can get one of these for. Also a couple others as I'd like an 8' wide one to use behind the dozer. I'll also look on "tractorhouse" although never have in the past. I see their publication and listings at the dealer as they advertise on there.

Thanks,