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Simple question
- Thread starter JBL
- Start date
RonG
Charter Member
That is a good question,I assume that you mean an active or live suspension like the bigger dozers have,right?
I have to conclude that it has something to do with cost to build and cost to rebuild as the smaller dozers can wear out an undercarriage pretty fast it seems,depending on how and where it is used of course.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the more knowledgeable posters on this.Ron G
I have to conclude that it has something to do with cost to build and cost to rebuild as the smaller dozers can wear out an undercarriage pretty fast it seems,depending on how and where it is used of course.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the more knowledgeable posters on this.Ron G
Lashlander
Senior Member
Where's Deas? He should be along after he's done restin his ole weary bones.
I'm with Ron though. I think its probably economics.
I'm with Ron though. I think its probably economics.
Squizzy246B
Administrator
Where's Deas? He should be along after he's done restin his ole weary bones.
What you need to do is get Deas IP adresses off the server then send an electrical charge down his phone line to kick start his pacemaker. It needs to be between 23.9 Volts and 24.1 Volts DC current on account Deas's Pacemaker is one of old Cat models. The pacemaker sets off a spark to ignite the diesel in his blood stream and the ole fella will be up and about in no time
....thats provided he's not in a real deep sleep dreamin about when he an Noah did the earthworks for the Arks docking cradle:lmao :lmao Ok thats enough humour at DP's expense (yu you you young..err...whippersnappers you)
And I will look forward to the answer too
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Yeah Ron the same system the larger dozers use. Seems like the lack of an equalizer bar and pivot shaft would lead to faster undercarriage wear. Run over something with one side and both sides come off the ground. This usually results in spinning both tracks if you are pushing anything. Then sometimes one side will be in the air while the edge of the other track is digging in. Also it would give them a alot better ride quality. You are probably right that it has something to do with cost.
Dozer575
Banned
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- Seattle, wa
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- Machinist and occasional pt Dozer oper
Cost, less weight, not needed. Small dozers are mostly for fine, small, and finish work. Notice they don't have such things as the boggie system either.
Big dozers work in ground and areas that are more demanding, and probably have a bit more weight on top, and the equalizer system helps prevent a roll over if you roll up on a rock or what ever going forward anyway.
Big dozers work in ground and areas that are more demanding, and probably have a bit more weight on top, and the equalizer system helps prevent a roll over if you roll up on a rock or what ever going forward anyway.
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Geez, I wish you folks would leave me in peace. LOL.
Hi, Folks.
Can't you people settle anything in peace? LOL.
As I understand it, the chief reason that many small dozers these days don't have equaliser bars is a cross between economics and ease of manufacture. Almost all of the machines in question have PAT blades which are frame-mounted inside the tracks. This brought about a conflict for the space between equaliser bars and blade push points. The blade push points seem to have won. And I'm still not convinced the original Terratrac/Case system of PAT blade wasn't the better system with the blade fitted to a C-frame mounted outside the tracks just like a normal dozer blade. At least you could put a bit more load on the corners of the blade without stressing out the engineers who designed it.
It also appears that some design engineers believe that PAT blades need a 'stable platform' and to hell with the operator's comfort or getting the machine's 'grunt' on the ground. For mine, the better a machine is able to conform to the contours of the ground upon which it stands, the more stable it will be and the better able to get its grunt on the ground. And have any of you noticed that rigid-frame machines don't turn as easy on rough ground as those with ocscillating tracks?
Squizzy, why'd you have to go giving out that contact information like that? Blabbermouth. And after the help I gave with identifying that machine for you. LOL.
Hi, Folks.
Can't you people settle anything in peace? LOL.
As I understand it, the chief reason that many small dozers these days don't have equaliser bars is a cross between economics and ease of manufacture. Almost all of the machines in question have PAT blades which are frame-mounted inside the tracks. This brought about a conflict for the space between equaliser bars and blade push points. The blade push points seem to have won. And I'm still not convinced the original Terratrac/Case system of PAT blade wasn't the better system with the blade fitted to a C-frame mounted outside the tracks just like a normal dozer blade. At least you could put a bit more load on the corners of the blade without stressing out the engineers who designed it.
It also appears that some design engineers believe that PAT blades need a 'stable platform' and to hell with the operator's comfort or getting the machine's 'grunt' on the ground. For mine, the better a machine is able to conform to the contours of the ground upon which it stands, the more stable it will be and the better able to get its grunt on the ground. And have any of you noticed that rigid-frame machines don't turn as easy on rough ground as those with ocscillating tracks?
Squizzy, why'd you have to go giving out that contact information like that? Blabbermouth. And after the help I gave with identifying that machine for you. LOL.
Squizzy246B
Administrator
Thanks for that Deas.
As for :stirthepot ..I guess thats a Hunter Street thing
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=16684&highlight=Normie#post16684
As for :stirthepot ..I guess thats a Hunter Street thing
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=16684&highlight=Normie#post16684
When finishing steeper slopes I like the rigid frame.
Like finishing a dam. First the top of dam has to be on grade and wide enough.
Otherwise the slope might look great, until you have to add some dirt on top to get it to grade. Then there will be a hole in the slope. And if the top is high and you cut it down, there will be a hump in the slope.
So if the top of slope is to line and grade, I prefer to pull the slope down so I don't have to regrade the top.
Working the slope sideways, the dozer wants to tip to the downhill side.
Especially when aimed down the slope a bit and backing up. When doing this work I like the rigid frame because it keep the dozer from nosing down as badly as a dozer with an equalizer does.
Kent
Like finishing a dam. First the top of dam has to be on grade and wide enough.
Otherwise the slope might look great, until you have to add some dirt on top to get it to grade. Then there will be a hole in the slope. And if the top is high and you cut it down, there will be a hump in the slope.
So if the top of slope is to line and grade, I prefer to pull the slope down so I don't have to regrade the top.
Working the slope sideways, the dozer wants to tip to the downhill side.
Especially when aimed down the slope a bit and backing up. When doing this work I like the rigid frame because it keep the dozer from nosing down as badly as a dozer with an equalizer does.
Kent
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Rigid track frames.
Hi, ZHKent.
I guess you and I won't get into many arguments about who is gonna have what machine - you can have the rigid frames, I'll take the oscillating frames any time. They put their grunt on the ground better, ride better and turn better, or at least I think so.
Even the earliest Cats had an equaliser spring or coil springs in them which allowed the tracks to oscillate. If you go back to pre-Cat times, both Holt and Best, along with most other manufacturers, had some sort of equalising/oscillating system. In fact, Holt even had track frames which articulated in the middle (see photos) which was a large part of the reason why most of the Holt designs were scrapped when the two companies merged to form Caterpillar in August, 1925. These articulated track frames were deemed too complicated and maintenance-intensive for continued production.
For a long time, Cat had what they called a 'rolling contact' equaliser bar. It didn't have a set pivot in the middle. If one track went up on an object or a mound of dirt, the equaliser spring or bar's contact with the main frame moved across toward the higher track as that end of the spring/bar tilted up. This had the effect of placing more weight on the higher track. That was also why many Cat models from that time had a second, smaller spring under the equaliser spring/bar, to facilitate this rolling contact while still retaining the equaliser in its proper place. Later, this same effect was achieved with rubber blocks that contacted the equaliser bar as it tilted up on whichever side. D9H's for one had this system.
The two photos are of a standard 10 ton Holt and 'Western' 10 ton Holt. The 'Western' was built especially to cater to the needs of the prairie farmers.
Hi, ZHKent.
I guess you and I won't get into many arguments about who is gonna have what machine - you can have the rigid frames, I'll take the oscillating frames any time. They put their grunt on the ground better, ride better and turn better, or at least I think so.
Even the earliest Cats had an equaliser spring or coil springs in them which allowed the tracks to oscillate. If you go back to pre-Cat times, both Holt and Best, along with most other manufacturers, had some sort of equalising/oscillating system. In fact, Holt even had track frames which articulated in the middle (see photos) which was a large part of the reason why most of the Holt designs were scrapped when the two companies merged to form Caterpillar in August, 1925. These articulated track frames were deemed too complicated and maintenance-intensive for continued production.
For a long time, Cat had what they called a 'rolling contact' equaliser bar. It didn't have a set pivot in the middle. If one track went up on an object or a mound of dirt, the equaliser spring or bar's contact with the main frame moved across toward the higher track as that end of the spring/bar tilted up. This had the effect of placing more weight on the higher track. That was also why many Cat models from that time had a second, smaller spring under the equaliser spring/bar, to facilitate this rolling contact while still retaining the equaliser in its proper place. Later, this same effect was achieved with rubber blocks that contacted the equaliser bar as it tilted up on whichever side. D9H's for one had this system.
The two photos are of a standard 10 ton Holt and 'Western' 10 ton Holt. The 'Western' was built especially to cater to the needs of the prairie farmers.
Attachments
LowBoy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2006
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- 1,149
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- Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
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- Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
Nice pictures, Deas.
Just imagine a modern day union operator sitting in that seat on that Holt for 12 hours a day...You'd be hearing from the steward in no time about a seat change I'd bet...
Just imagine a modern day union operator sitting in that seat on that Holt for 12 hours a day...You'd be hearing from the steward in no time about a seat change I'd bet...
Grader4me
Senior Member
Nice pictures Deas. Don't want to highjack this thread, but I have a question. In the first picture is that you? If it is would you mind moving so I can get a better look at that grader? Lol
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Not this little black duck.
Hi, LowBoy.
Yeah! I dunno about the fronts of operators but the backs of 'em have definitely gone soft.
Hi, Grader4me.
Not me, Mate. I'm better looking than that.
Hi, LowBoy.
Yeah! I dunno about the fronts of operators but the backs of 'em have definitely gone soft.
Hi, Grader4me.
Not me, Mate. I'm better looking than that.
LowBoy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2006
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- 1,149
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- Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
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- Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
At least he's humble,Grader4...
Grader4me
Senior Member
At least he's humble,Grader4...
Yeah... If the truth was known...he probably has a pointy head and coke bottle glasses or something
ointhead :yup
LowBoy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,149
- Location
- Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
- Occupation
- Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
Yeah... If the truth was known...he probably has a pointy head and coke bottle glasses or something
Not to mention a pocket protector jammed with pens and pencils and continuity testers...:laugh :falldownlaugh
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Grader4me
Senior Member
digger242j
Administrator
Do you always pose upside down?
C'mon! You know perfectly well that that's the direction everybody in Oz is pointing.
On edit: Although, I've always wondered how they keep the change from falling out of their pockets...
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Change in Pockets
Hi, Digger242j.
It's good to see that somebody topside is on the ball. As for the change falling out of the pockets - we don't have change down here any more. Every transation you make, whatever is left over out of the last even $5.00 goes to the Government as tax - or at least that's the way it seems.
But there's anther reason why change wouldn't fall out of our pockets too. You might think it's gravity but there's no such thing as gravity - the Earth SUCKS.
And for the real story - BUT only if you can handle the truth, go here:
http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/
Hi, Digger242j.
It's good to see that somebody topside is on the ball. As for the change falling out of the pockets - we don't have change down here any more. Every transation you make, whatever is left over out of the last even $5.00 goes to the Government as tax - or at least that's the way it seems.
But there's anther reason why change wouldn't fall out of our pockets too. You might think it's gravity but there's no such thing as gravity - the Earth SUCKS.
And for the real story - BUT only if you can handle the truth, go here:
http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/