Screwed by a flawed manual. 580ck (188 diesel) rebuild

[Doug Overkill]

My rebuild project came to a screeching halt this weekend. I was cleaning up my work area where my engine rebuild was progressing smoothly. I had the head back on on and the timing gear cover and water pump all buttoned up. I thought my next task was to cold set valve backlash and then mount it in the tractor.

Then I found the oil slinger sitting next to the fuel pump on the bench. I have been diligently following the manual every step of the way. I have now read the assembly of the crank section more than 5 times. (twice before, once during and again after). There is NO MENTION of the damn oil slinger. Yes it is in the parts diagram but not at all in the step by step. Every other piece but not this one.

I am so pissed!

Now I have destroyed 2 gaskets getting back to where I was 4 days ago. Except then I had all the parts and gaskets I needed.

I have been so careful following all the steps because I can't afford to go backwards. Either time or money. But this seems like a real miss in the manual.

Have any of you been sabotaged by the manual?

 

[oldtom]

My rebuild project came to a screeching halt this weekend. I was cleaning up my work area where my engine rebuild was progressing smoothly. I had the head back on on and the timing gear cover and water pump all buttoned up. I thought my next task was to cold set valve backlash and then mount it in the tractor.

Then I found the oil slinger sitting next to the fuel pump on the bench. I have been diligently following the manual every step of the way. I have now read the assembly of the crank section more than 5 times. (twice before, once during and again after). There is NO MENTION of the damn oil slinger. Yes it is in the parts diagram but not at all in the step by step. Every other piece but not this one.

I am so pissed!

Now I have destroyed 2 gaskets getting back to where I was 4 days ago. Except then I had all the parts and gaskets I needed.

I have been so careful following all the steps because I can't afford to go backwards. Either time or money. But this seems like a real miss in the manual.

Have any of you been sabotaged by the manual?

STEP-109 Oil slinger on crankshaft with con-cave side faceout wards ,page 2035-25 in 188 manual

 

[Doug Overkill]

STEP-109 Oil slinger on crankshaft with con-cave side faceout wards ,page 2035-25 in 188 manual

When was your manual produced? Mine manual is #9-69650 and has a 'reprinted in 1986' date in it. No reference to other dates that I found but is specific to the 580ck model which ended in 1971 which is what my tractor is. The engine assembly for the 188D is section 2024. Not section 2035 in my manual.

It is Good to know they updated and fixed the manual for the later years. I think I read somewhere that the 188d was used on various equipment into the late 80's/early 90's.

 

[oldtom]

When was your manual produced? Mine manual is #9-69650 and has a 'reprinted in 1986' date in it. No reference to other dates that I found but is specific to the 580ck model which ended in 1971 which is what my tractor is. The engine assembly for the 188D is section 2024. Not section 2035 in my manual.

It is Good to know they updated and fixed the manual for the later years. I think I read somewhere that the 188d was used on various equipment into the late 80's/early 90's.

I have to look got my copy from when doing product support for jic in australia, could send photo but an not at home,the slinger go on the end of crank shaft beteen timing gear and front cover:drinkup

 

[Doug Overkill]

I know where it goes and when it should have gone on. My frustration is that in following the manual it mentions every other piece from the keyway to the dowel rings and on and on with every part in order. BUT NO MENTION of the slinger in the assembly section.

 

[melben]

Sorry for your frustration but you will do it countless times in your life, I am 68yrs and 51 yrs on the same job and can tell you if you react that way you will spend a lot of time ticked off. I could tell you stories of how I went back and corrected mistakes after sleeping overnite and realizing I had missed a step. Most times it will be your fault, some pieces you won't have a manual for. Just part of the job description.

Mel

 

[oldtom]

Sorry for your frustration but you will do it countless times in your life, I am 68yrs and 51 yrs on the same job and can tell you if you react that way you will spend a lot of time ticked off. I could tell you stories of how I went back and corrected mistakes after sleeping overnite and realizing I had missed a step. Most times it will be your fault, some pieces you won't have a manual for. Just part of the job description.
yes we the ones putting back together no one new tool is that digcamera/or be it that mod/phone;

 

[mikey1]

Wow Melben youre what we call a diehard!! Im sure you have enjoyed your career.

 

[kshansen]

Sorry for your frustration but you will do it countless times in your life, I am 68yrs and 51 yrs on the same job and can tell you if you react that way you will spend a lot of time ticked off. I could tell you stories of how I went back and corrected mistakes after sleeping overnite and realizing I had missed a step. Most times it will be your fault, some pieces you won't have a manual for. Just part of the job description.

Mel

How about intalling a transmission pump on a 988 Cat then when it would not move discover you left the shipping plug in the suction tube? Four of the hardest to reach bolts on the machine! That one I did not have to sleep on many others like you say, wake up in the middle of night and it hits like a freight train!

 

[Nige]

My late grandfather had a saying that "The man who never made a mistake never made anything - but an intelligent man should never make the same mistake twice". Wise words.

 

[excavator]

I used to have a customer who would say, "If it was easy, everyone would do it." We're all human and make mistakes, that's what helps us learn and become better mechanics.

 

[BillG]

One thing that I learned a long time ago. When reassembling a fairly complicated machine, I keep parts that are associated with different groups of the machine together. This way I can make a quick scan of remaining parts and catch a mistake before I might make it. I try to do this while I clean the parts and inspect them, this also helps in catching one that may need to be replaced that I didn't see before.

 

[melben]

Mikey,


It has been good but time and health issues are taking a toll. I was fortunate to be in a family owned business and am family but I believe I have held up my end over the years. Technology is replacing mechanical knowledge and intuition, laptops and how to run them are not the future any more, they are the now. We shall see what the near future holds, I still find work rewarding so am in no hurry to hang it up.

Mel

 

[willie59]

Sorry for your frustration but you will do it countless times in your life, I am 68yrs and 51 yrs on the same job and can tell you if you react that way you will spend a lot of time ticked off. I could tell you stories of how I went back and corrected mistakes after sleeping overnite and realizing I had missed a step. Most times it will be your fault, some pieces you won't have a manual for. Just part of the job description.

Mel

Same here Mel, nothing to blow a gasket over. A buddy asked me to change his timing chain on a old Ford truck with a 302 (I hate gas engines). Didn't want to do it, but agreed to. Everything went fine, didn't even break the long water pump bolts, but during the re-assembly, kept staring at this single 3/8 bolt, not another bolt like it in the mix. "Ahh, it will come to me as I progress". Well, it never did. In defense of my sanity, there were other bolts laying in the engine compartment before I started the work, figured, "well, it must have been already lying here". Had buddy start the engine, fired right off, run like a top...for 5 seconds, quit dead as a hammer. At that very moment it hit me, where that bolt came from, it was the retainer bolt for the camshaft timing gear. Just damn! :Banghead

 

[Bill Smith]

Willie, that would have been an oopsy.
Doug it could have been worse ,You could have installed the engine

 

[Doug Overkill]

splitting the tractor section

I'm back to complain about another gap in the manual. I have been all thru the factory service manual and parts book and there is no process on installing the motor to the transmission. Seems easy and straight forward but of course trouble finds me.

So here's the issue.
The oil pan on my 1971 580CK is the cast iron version which mounts BOTH to the bottom of the block and to the bell housing of the Transmission. I have tried twice to get the thing to seal and both times it is leaking from the bell housing. There are 2 gaskets, one on each face of the pan. The one that mounts vertical against the trans is much thinner than the block gasket. The issue is the corner where the 3 surfaces meet. IT LEAKS. 2 gaskets just don't butt up against each other enough to seal. The part that is weird to me is that the upper half of the bell housing to motor does not have a gasket and the lower section at the pan does.

So I go to my trusty manuals and dig thru, BUT.... There is no procedure for 'splitting the tractor' in the my manuals. It does not show the motor to transmission interface. Of course I am not splitting the tractor, I am trying to reattach the halves, leak free.

 

[Tinkerer]

LTV black silicon is what I have used in these situations with good success. I have found out the hard way to NOT tighten the bolts after applying the silicon. If I did the compound would get almost completely squeezed out. I let it cure for several hours and then torque the bolts to specs. I remember a particular nasty assembly where an engine oil pan extended forward to enclose the bottom of the camshaft and timing gear cover housing. The LTV permanently sealed it.

 

[melben]

I'm back to complain about another gap in the manual. I have been all thru the factory service manual and parts book and there is no process on installing the motor to the transmission. Seems easy and straight forward but of course trouble finds me.

So here's the issue.
The oil pan on my 1971 580CK is the cast iron version which mounts BOTH to the bottom of the block and to the bell housing of the Transmission. I have tried twice to get the thing to seal and both times it is leaking from the bell housing. There are 2 gaskets, one on each face of the pan. The one that mounts vertical against the trans is much thinner than the block gasket. The issue is the corner where the 3 surfaces meet. IT LEAKS. 2 gaskets just don't butt up against each other enough to seal. The part that is weird to me is that the upper half of the bell housing to motor does not have a gasket and the lower section at the pan does.

So I go to my trusty manuals and dig thru, BUT.... There is no procedure for 'splitting the tractor' in the my manuals. It does not show the motor to transmission interface. Of course I am not splitting the tractor, I am trying to reattach the halves, leak free.

Not sure what you mean by no gasket at the top, there is a full circle gasket for power shuttle models listed on the Case CE parts site. Earlier tractors had rectangular cork pieces that fit slots in the rear of the pan to seal the corners but your B with a cast pan is not shown with them.

Mel

 

[fast_st]

Well, if they are two machined mating surfaces of a precision nature, involving alignment of rotating parts, usually the correct goop is 'anerobic gasket maker' it holds a uniform thickness under clamping unlike rtv that can be random. It also won't squeeze out but its slow to apply, sort of like thick clear frosting, just a thin bead all the way round and bolt it up, doesn't harden up before its clamped. I get mine at NAPA

 

[Doug Overkill]

Melben - My "full out of frame engine overhaul gasket kit" included the 2 gaskets shown in the first picture. My fear is that the Item 13 in the 2nd picture is what I needed to install A LOT of parts ago....

Which means a bunch of instant gasket in some hard to reach places....