rubber tracked skid steer vs tracks over wheels which is best, most productive

[lake side bob]

Wondering about the tracked skid steers and how people think they compare with
a wheel skid steer with tracks over the wheels?
Any experience with both?
What is difference in performance?
What is difference in fuel usage?
What is difference in the cost to acquire new machine?

 

[JBGASH]

I have one of each. I like the rubbber tracks by far the most. No more flat tires with the rubber tracks.

 

[340plot]

depends on the type of terrain, and work you are doing

 

[k45]

You can avoid flat tires with solid or foam filled tires. There are several different designs.

CTLs (rubber tracked "skid steer") run $10-15k more than a comparable SS and have significantly higher maintenance with the undercarriage. From what I understand, you can expect big $$$ maintenance at around 1-2K hours on a CTL. OTOH, they are supposed to be a bit more stable and have more traction. The cost is what kept me away from one but if you need it, they can be worth it.

Ken

 

[LanceNE]

Experience I've had with both:
-CTL, MTL VTS will out perform a SS on many applications
-Initual cost of the tracked system is a major neg
-Maintenance on certain track system can be very high
-Very terrain/application dependent whether the added performance outweighs the higher costs of the tracked system
Remember the track systems on skid steers were designed to function on tasks varying from lawns to forests......Not many systems that are designed to work on golf coarse last very long in the woods.

 

[k45]

Remember the track systems on skid steers were designed to function on tasks varying from lawns to forests......Not many systems that are designed to work on golf coarse last very long in the woods.

Can you explain further? Are you saying that CTLs poorly designed for work in the woods?

Thanks,

Ken

 

[LanceNE]

Saying that some of the track issues are that ss are not application specific designed..... used for many tasks.....or maybe better put they are designed for a very large, diverse customer base.
Tracked SS can be used in forestry and other harsh environments.... just need to be aware of the costs.
Not sure on the poorly designed....but not specifically designed to do this application.

 

[k45]

-Maintenance on certain track system can be very high

I know that certain tracked systems had more problems than others (older Cat undercarriage for one), but am I correct that even the best ones are significantly more expensive to maintain than a wheeled machine?

Ken

 

[chrisconklin]

What's the climbing ability like?

If its okay, I have a question while your on the topic.
How does the climbing ability vary from a tracked to wheeled machine.
Say going into a full basement excavation say 8' deep with a 24' run on good clay (to move concrete
to footings and then later to dump in 9' high foundation wall?
Thanks for any input.

 

[KSSS]

I know that certain tracked systems had more problems than others (older Cat undercarriage for one), but am I correct that even the best ones are significantly more expensive to maintain than a wheeled machine?

Ken

I would say they "can" be significantly more expensive than wheels to maintain, but in many applications they are significantly more productive.

 

[KSSS]

If its okay, I have a question while your on the topic.
How does the climbing ability vary from a tracked to wheeled machine.
Say going into a full basement excavation say 8' deep with a 24' run on good clay (to move concrete
to footings and then later to dump in 9' high foundation wall?
Thanks for any input.

I do this often but seldom in good clay, more like bad cobble rock. The tracked machine is much better. Especially if the ground is soft or wet. I usually am more steep than having a 24' run though.

 

[nwngunner]

To expand on the orginal posters question. What are the major differences between the brands. I am looking at getting in to a compact track loader. I need one for the farm putting up hay, feeding cattle in the mud and or snow cleaning drive way out for the semi ect ect. I have read that the asv and the terex are good machines but they are really expensive to fix. Bobcat i suspect your paying for the name, John Deere i bet is name as well. Does the deere have the matiance issues that i keep reading about? I might be looking at a new machine but i kind of want to stay away from the tier four stuff.

Also for normal work track change sprockets stuff like that is that doable on your own? I am able to rebuild engines and pull tractors apart and rebuild them. I just kind of want to avoid all the electronics. Any insight would be a great welcome.

 

[adrtree]

I have had 4 tire machines then later 5 different track machines in succession. I have around 15k hrs on Bobcat brand machines.
I am in the tree and land clearing industry and the track loaders have become an important part of our work. The only time we use tire machines is when there is sensitive landscaping. For sensitive turf the A300 Bobcat set on all wheel steer can't really be beat by any skid steer. In all other situations a track machine will outperform a tire machine of equal weight,power, etc. They have more traction and are considerably more stable in most any situation.
A tire machine might be a better choice if you are on the street alot or in a landscape yard etc.
Also the ground pressure of the tracks is considerably less than tires but it will do more light (1 inch or so) damage on dry ground than tires will. On wet ground the tires tend to leave deeper ruts and then the machine won't have enough traction to back grade its own damage.
Track machine cost: For me its new tracks every 700-900hrs=$2000 , New rear idlers and always one or two casters every 2k hrs= $1000 or more. And after that I get rid of them and buy a new one because by then most all the bushings and wearable parts are worn out. Best to sell them as they approach 3k hrs.
We are abusive on machines.
Hope that helps!!

 

[adrtree]

Oh and I forgot, The tires get punctured constantly. They are no good for demo and no good for rough tree work. If you get foam filled or solid tires then they lose more traction due to the tire not conforming to the ground as much. I tried it every way you can. Try an A300 if you like tires. We cleaned up a hurricane destroyed golf course and used the T300s in the rough and the A300s on the course itself doing heavy work and they barely touch the grass. And you can switch them to skid if you like with a button.

 

[LanceNE]

Tracked machines can definitely be more productive. It is when you are in situations where the application might cause the track system to fail, this is when you need to take a hard look at the cost and whether the more production outweighs the maintenance and initial cost. There will be other applications where tracked system, other than initial cost, the maintenance may not be that high. The problems we see with a tracked machine, is if what you are doing is causing them to fail, downtime and repairs can be a nightmare. There is definitely a production increase especially if you are talking about lighter softer soils and slope. And, at least in my opinion, they have been way oversold on what they can do on a full time basis. What adrtree said on hours...believe it or not, that is what I've heard from 3 separate brands that under heavy harsh use, 2-3000 hours is all you get out of them before you begin to have service issues.

 

[adrtree]

To expand on the orginal posters question. What are the major differences between the brands. I am looking at getting in to a compact track loader. I need one for the farm putting up hay, feeding cattle in the mud and or snow cleaning drive way out for the semi ect ect. I have read that the asv and the terex are good machines but they are really expensive to fix. Bobcat i suspect your paying for the name, John Deere i bet is name as well. Does the deere have the matiance issues that i keep reading about? I might be looking at a new machine but i kind of want to stay away from the tier four stuff.

Also for normal work track change sprockets stuff like that is that doable on your own? I am able to rebuild engines and pull tractors apart and rebuild them. I just kind of want to avoid all the electronics. Any insight would be a great welcome.

Nwngunner. On Bobcats you can change the front and rear idler wheels and the casters easily by yourself. The sprockets are not so easy but the sprockets are the last thing to completely wear out. The sprockets will likely outlive your use of the machine. The rear idlers tend to be the first to go(bottom back roller).
The Bobcats all end up with some dirt clogging your fuel tank screen after about 2-3k hrs and the radiator is positioned in a bad way where it allows dirt to fall through the cover and clog the fins every few weeks to months for us depending on the amount of dirt falling on the machine. Other than that no problems. They say they have fixed these 2 issues in the newer machines.

 

[adrtree]

Tracked machines can definitely be more productive. It is when you are in situations where the application might cause the track system to fail, this is when you need to take a hard look at the cost and whether the more production outweighs the maintenance and initial cost. There will be other applications where tracked system, other than initial cost, the maintenance may not be that high. The problems we see with a tracked machine, is if what you are doing is causing them to fail, downtime and repairs can be a nightmare. There is definitely a production increase especially if you are talking about lighter softer soils and slope. And, at least in my opinion, they have been way oversold on what they can do on a full time basis. What adrtree said on hours...believe it or not, that is what I've heard from 3 separate brands that under heavy harsh use, 2-3000 hours is all you get out of them before you begin to have service issues.

Lance is correct. 3k hrs and pretty much all the track machines need to be renewed or replaced. The reason being is the increased force they use wears out all the metal collars and bushings on every joint on the machine even if you grease religiously. I crack the main pivot boom bushings quite often. As far as I know all machinery and all brand of compact loaders use pretty much the same bushings. The bigger the bushings the more abuse they will take.
The motors never die. The pumps do fine if you maintain them and the structural steel itself lasts forever.

 

[nwngunner]

I understand that as time goes these need repaired. I had a front wheel fall off a tractor when i was moving snow with my rear blade. I am not afraid of repairs, i just dont want to get a machine that is constantly braking from poor design. I have a buddy with a machine shop who builds gears and shafts, any machine work i get done for nothing, well a case of beer but still.

I not beyond wrenching on something i own, i know with the tracks you have to keep them clean, in the winter will be harder thanks to freezing outside. How ever plan on keeping it cleaned up with the pressure washer. On the bobcat tracks any way to get rid of that outside plate, so i can get to the bogey wheels and the idlers for clean up?

There is a 2005 JD 332 in my area about 150miles away, here is a link to it.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6884807&fb_source=message

what are your thoughts on the JD? i have a dealership in town for parts, i hear they have issues or is that a you hear the bad and not the good.

 

[adrtree]

Hmm

I understand that as time goes these need repaired. I had a front wheel fall off a tractor when i was moving snow with my rear blade. I am not afraid of repairs, i just dont want to get a machine that is constantly braking from poor design. I have a buddy with a machine shop who builds gears and shafts, any machine work i get done for nothing, well a case of beer but still.

I not beyond wrenching on something i own, i know with the tracks you have to keep them clean, in the winter will be harder thanks to freezing outside. How ever plan on keeping it cleaned up with the pressure washer. On the bobcat tracks any way to get rid of that outside plate, so i can get to the bogey wheels and the idlers for clean up?

There is a 2005 JD 332 in my area about 150miles away, here is a link to it.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6884807&fb_source=message

what are your thoughts on the JD? i have a dealership in town for parts, i hear they have issues or is that a you hear the bad and not the good.

Nwngunner I don't have too much experience with the Deere. Some of my friends doing the same work as me(just as abusive) own them and I haven't heard any complaints except about the cost of the machine. The one you are looking at looks like a clean non abused machine with relatively low hours. Probably a good choice. It should be just around 25k though. They may come down if you go to buy it. Do yourself a favor if you do tree or land work and get a Solsbee Grapple. I have had many many grapples and broken all of them. Bradco, Loflin, Bobcat Brand 80 inch(broke the first day) .The Solsbee holds up the best by far. I've been there and met them and they are good guys who stand behind what they make.
http://www.solesbeesequipment.com/skid_steer_grapple_rakes.php

 

[adrtree]

I understand that as time goes these need repaired. I had a front wheel fall off a tractor when i was moving snow with my rear blade. I am not afraid of repairs, i just dont want to get a machine that is constantly braking from poor design. I have a buddy with a machine shop who builds gears and shafts, any machine work i get done for nothing, well a case of beer but still.

I not beyond wrenching on something i own, i know with the tracks you have to keep them clean, in the winter will be harder thanks to freezing outside. How ever plan on keeping it cleaned up with the pressure washer. On the bobcat tracks any way to get rid of that outside plate, so i can get to the bogey wheels and the idlers for clean up?

There is a 2005 JD 332 in my area about 150miles away, here is a link to it.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6884807&fb_source=message

what are your thoughts on the JD? i have a dealership in town for parts, i hear they have issues or is that a you hear the bad and not the good.

And on removing the plate. Dont bother theres only a ram inside to keep the track tight by pushing the front idler forward. Tilt the bucket all the way down and boom down then climb out. That will raise the machine at a 45 degree angle or so enough to allow the tracks to sag a little and give you enough room to wash the inside or back of each outrigger, casters, etc.