removing Case 450 head

[Sailorman]

I almost have the head off my old dozer but although I took 3 bolts out of the water pump/gear case housing cannot get it loose. Reading the shop manual, I see I must remove the water pump. There must be some additional bolts behind the pump?
Can I get this out without removing the radiator?

And what are "fire rings"? Are these what seal the head to the sleeves? Why would the cylinder sleeve protrusion ever change?
thanks in advance from the neophyte.

 

[alrman]

There is an allen headed capscrew, behind the water pump, holding the water pump housing to the cylinder head - in saying that they often get left out when being rebuilt.....

As to whether it is possible to remove, without removing the radiator - I can't really say, just been too long since I've done that type of a repair on a 450 - but you are the one standing in front of it - I would think it was possible.
Fire rings - are the steel ring in the head gasket which goes around each cylinder.
The sleeve protrusion does seem to change over time & the block surface needs to be planed to correct the issue - or shims be made & fitted under the cylinder sleeve flanges to bring them back to spec.
If there is no cylinder sleeve protrusion, the head gasket won't seal properly, at the fire ring area & cause the compression to eventually blow the gasket.

 

[chidog]

Why would cylinder protrusion change?
1) Its a very small surface area "Land" that sits on the counter bore in the block deck, both items are cast iron, not high heat treated or hardened steel.
2) The cylinder head is clamping many tons on those cylinders.
3) Nothing in the physical world is truly solid and will always flex, or give in someway depending on the load and stress.
4) Especially wet cylinder liners will have a small amount of play in the block, in other words they can move very small amounts and vibrate, piston thrust, and heat expansion and contraction, as well as the head slightly bouncing can work on that liner to block interface and cause wear, its very slight and takes a long time to cause the wear and or compaction of the areas, then the liner sinks and the protrusion goes with it.
Fast and simple explanation. And all similar on spacer plate type engines.
That vibration is also blamed on the cavitation pitting on wet cylinder liners, that in time will etch through the cylinder wall and leak coolant into the crankcase.

 

[Sailorman]

thank you both gentlemen. This is the first time I have encountered "fire rings" / spacer plate engines. And thanks for the heads up on needing an Allen wrench. I am doing this at a friend's shop so taking the needed tools over when I go.

 

[Tinkerer]

Residual contamination in the block and how close to specs the liners were machined can make a difference in the liner protrusion. If, they protrude above the block surface.
Do you have the service manual ?

 

[Sailorman]

OK, took off the rad, removed the water pump and there it was, one bolt with a water line thru the center. head is off and at shop getting new valves and guides installed.
I did not notice a separate "fire ring" I assume would be affixed to the top of the sleeve:

Here is what the shop manual shows: But my gasket set does not have separate rings, just this: I will go back tomorrow with a Dremel to carefully clean off the top of the sleeves and measure the protrusion. And where do these 8 small seals go, P01911?

 

[Tinkerer]

The fire rings are part of the head gasket.
Be very careful with the Dremel. They can damage a precision surface.
I would discourage the use of rotating wire wheels for cleaning any machined surface
Carburetor cleaner and a scraper were my preferred method.
I liked a 1" wide, very sharp wood chisel held a a very low angle for scraping flat surfaces.
I don't know what the O rings are for.

 

[Orest Anhel]

Could the O rings be seals for the injectors?

 

[Tinkerer]

Maybe.
It seems odd there are seven of them in the package.
They sorta look like intake valve seals.
Quite often there are extra and un-need parts in gasket kits that are not used.