Rebuilt injection pump 580B wont start

[thepumpguysc]

All this talk about injectors is ridiculous.. it ran before he took it off.. it’s obvious a rebuild error.
If the guy didn’t put the weight retainer on the head correctly, the lines in the pump will b 180* out of time..hence pulling it off and rotating the inside of the pump..
Have u cleaned out the checkball return connector.??(if it has one)
Try starting it WITHOUT THE RETURN LINE HOOKED UP AND THE FITTINGS OFF THE TOP OF THE PUMP (RETURN)
Are the lines loosened at the injectors.??

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

Yes he had the lines off at all four injectors and it was spitting fuel. He did try starting it as well with return line disconnected. But we did not advance the timing to 8 degrees as stated earlier. He took out the cap on side of block....lined up top dead center on that and then opened up the access panel on the pump and that was timed or those lines were lined up. Maybe that is why it wont fire because the 8 degrees wasn't taken into account. I probably sound dumb the way i state stuff. I know nothing regarding pumps or engine stuff but my buddy has worked on quite a few roosamaster pumps. Mainly on International farm tractors as he is a huge farmall/international nut.

 

[Tinkerer]

There may be be chance someone previously marked the pump flange and timing gear cover with a chisel mark.
It is commonly done to ensure that pump timing is exactly where it was before removal of the pump.
Look closely at the mounting flange of the pump for the mark.
"spitting fuel" --- No, there should be fine mist emitting from the injector nozzles.

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

Wont probably have a chance to work on it till the weekend again. I will look at the flange. Thanks for all the info

 

[stinky64]

Also, one thing that may be of importance is that when they rebuilt my pump he said everything inside was in really good shape except for the governor mechanism was broken. He replaced it. I dont know if that would raise problems with the injectors now that its been replaced? Also whats the reason for plugging tank heater in? Just so everything is hot and spind easier? Could the crank sensor be an issue? Looks like just a bolt a d spring combo so i dont know what could fail. The friend installing my pump has done many pumps before. Im not saying hes and expert but he's way more knowledgeable than I am. We also had valve cover off to make sure valves were on compression stroke etc. Thank you for any and all responses.

You say that the governor mechanism was broken, do you mean the weight retainer ring was shot? Did you replace the old style weight retainer with the one piece style? and if you did , did you transfer the timing mark to the new "basket"?

 

[Vetech63]

WOW......this has some promise! Please continue!

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

I am not sure regarding the go ernor. All i know is that was the internal governor inside the pump that was replaced. Here's what i can tell you now and please dont ridicule me or my friend for the mistakes made as i have learned a lot from not knowing much. Apparently, when he removed the pump he never marked the position it was originally in. When he removed it he also removed the pump shaft and sent that into the shop with pump. He also removed the timing gear that spins the pump shaft but never marked the original.position. Now i don't know anything about this stuff and i should have done my homework before having him do this project. Please dont reply with telling me how big of an idiot i was or friend. Im asking where do i go.from here. He has tried everything from advancing pump timing to advancing flywheel from 0 to 18 degrees. I told him that according to the information you guys sent me from the manual the flywheel needs to be positioned at 8 degrees advanced. What can be done from here? I have close to.$2000 in new parts (recored radiator, rebuilt pump, new starter, etc) and a tractor that wont even pop off at all.

 

[Vetech63]

We are going to have to re-time everything starting from scratch.
1. Is this the 188 or 207 engine?
2. Is the injector pump currently on or off the engine?
3. Which injector pump do you have? (sorry, I dont have time to read through this whole thread looking for info).
4. If the pump drive gear was removed from the gear train then the timing mark on the gear is worthless now. The front timing cover would need to be removed so the timing marks can be realigned.
5. Does the engine have a timing pointer on the front cover? Is the engine balancer marked?

 

[Vetech63]

There is a possibility that the gear can be reinstalled without removal of the front cover. That is providing you can physically see the timing mark on the drive gear for the injector pump gear. If you can see it......(it will come up every 2 complete revolutions of the crankshaft) then we can get it on the #1 compression stroke and realign that gear to the proper position. Its been a long time since I have done one of those engines so I dont remember if the timing mark can be seen.

 

[56wrench]

if the gear has a keyway it will have to be timed. if it is held on a tapered shaft with no keyway, the gear will likely not need to be timed. there is another previous thread for timing a case engine that has pretty much all the information you need. it wasn't too long ago. it was under the title of TIMING MARKS or something- i don't remember exactly

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

Its the 188 diesel. The pump timing gear does have a slotted key-way. I didnt notice any marks on that timing gear the pump shaft turns. But there is a double pointer indicator going off memory that is on the crankshaft timing gear. Currently the pump is still on the tractor. Thx

 

[Delmer]

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/timing-case-188d-with-no-marks.87716/

This might be the thread you want. I'll leave it to thepumpguy's posts, it's not hopeless, just requires a little outside the box thinking, maybe trial and error.

 

[Tinkerer]

The last post in that thread was quite interesting !
The mark was there.

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

My flywheel has mark for top dead center. I guess what im asking/wondering is this.....since my buddy pulled the pump off and also removed the pump shaft and sent them in to get rebuilt....he did not mark that slotted timing gear that spins the fiel pump with the crankshaft gear. So, how do you know when you put that pump shaft gear back into the machine that its in the correct position? I see no marks on that pump shaft timing gear itself but there is a pointer on the crankshaft timing gear. Can the pump.timing gear go back in at any position or does that gear have to be on the exact cog he removed it at withoit making the mark?

 

[Tinkerer]

Did you get the timing marks on # 10 and 14 lined up on their marks correctly ?

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

Thats my question.....i dont see any timing marks on the #10. All i see is that double pointer on the front of the #14.

 

[ANGUS BEEF]

Im assuminf if those two gears are not matched exactly it will not fire?

 

[Tinkerer]

yes that is correct.
The proper alignment of them is just as important as the two lies in the pump timing window.
One tooth off and you are screwed.

 

[Tinkerer]

If you follow these instructions EXACTLY as stated your 188 will run if the pump is installed correctly.
Instruction # 6 is probably where something wasn't done correctly.

 

[thepumpguysc]

This is why it’s so damn important to time it (line up the 2 lines in the pump window) BEFORE U remove ANY injection pump.!!
If u had, this would be a non-issue..
U would just mount the pump, line up the lines in the pump and slide the gear on.