Quick Change Grader Blade - Borox, A Better Blade

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Seriously? I have enjoyed reading his thread as have others I don't buy into the system but I still want to know about it

Thank you for your support, I was simply trying to get the information out that was asked of me.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

While I am aware of the science of grading a road, unless wearparts wants to bring a system around this summer to demo on my machine, I can't see the higher ups going for it. Are all the blades honeycombed? I'd need a solid one for road shouldering. That edge would do a number on fresh asphalt

There are two different companies in Canada that provide the quick change grader blade from Borox, so it wouldn't even be my company that would sell the parts. I do know they do run demos, and no not all the blades are honeycombed they have a variety of different blade styles. For those exact reasons that you mentioned being some guys prefer a straight edge for shouldering, or plowing snow, and they want the honeycomb for cutting situations.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Seriously? I have enjoyed reading his thread as have others I don't buy into the system but I still want to know about it

Jonas just so you know there are counties in MN running this system right now.

 

[digger242j]

Just so we're all on the same page, the forum rule regarding advertising is this:

Advertising of goods and services are not permitted unless sponsoring heavyequipmentforums.com. A vendor of goods or services may create one introductory post or thread explaining their product or service and may answer questions about such within that thread. No further promotion of your product or service may be made without sponsorship. If you are interested in becoming a sponsor, click “Contact Us” at the bottom of any page.

(Underscore added for emphasis.)

The reason the rule is written that way is because we recognize that there are legitimate vendors who may have a product to introduce, and that our members will be better informed having been able to learn of said product here. We also feel it's sort of a privilege on our part to have vendors/manufacturers take an interest in our feedback.

Unfortunately, it has often been the case that vendors will abuse the privilege, and post multiple threads pimping their wares, or be extremely forward in soliciting business. We (meaning the membership as well as the staff), take a dim view of that, to put it mildly. The staff appreciates when such activities are reported.

I haven't read each and every word of this thread, but after a quick review it appears that DMC is operating within the letter of the law.

Thanks, everybody, for your understanding and continued cooperation.

 

[pedrocar]

Use them on rock,gravel,sand and rail ballast and work well mostly dry grading advantages of swapping sections around to keep the edge strait being thin means less heat last longer also use sandvic edges but they take a bit more to push around

 

[ovrszd]

Use them on rock,gravel,sand and rail ballast and work well mostly dry grading advantages of swapping sections around to keep the edge strait being thin means less heat last longer also use sandvic edges but they take a bit more to push around

Yep, Sandvic's take some HP.

Not having used any other type it's just an assumption on my part that they all do??

In my World there are definite advantages for any type of serrated or toothed cutter. Those times are few. My issue with this system is the complexity of it if only needed periodically.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this discussion but what is the cost of a 14' system?

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Yep, Sandvic's take some HP.

Not having used any other type it's just an assumption on my part that they all do??

In my World there are definite advantages for any type of serrated or toothed cutter. Those times are few. My issue with this system is the complexity of it if only needed periodically.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this discussion but what is the cost of a 14' system?

Ovrszd being that the last time I shared some pricing info I bothered a member I would be more than happy to share the details with you, but because I want to make sure I am not coming across the wrong way I would suggest sending me a direct message.

One thing that we do need to clear up though is that the quick change system its not just a serrated tooth cutter, there are 7 different thickness/style blades. They have serrated and flat blades, and we are now getting scarifier quick change and a carbide quick change. So the system allows itself to transform into any style of blade that currently exists but on one system. I just wanted to make sure to get that across because if it was only a serrated blade option I would agree that it does not make sense to get the system just for one use. This however is not the case as you can see from the image there are many different styles.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Just so we're all on the same page, the forum rule regarding advertising is this:

Advertising of goods and services are not permitted unless sponsoring heavyequipmentforums.com. A vendor of goods or services may create one introductory post or thread explaining their product or service and may answer questions about such within that thread. No further promotion of your product or service may be made without sponsorship. If you are interested in becoming a sponsor, click “Contact Us” at the bottom of any page.

(Underscore added for emphasis.)

The reason the rule is written that way is because we recognize that there are legitimate vendors who may have a product to introduce, and that our members will be better informed having been able to learn of said product here. We also feel it's sort of a privilege on our part to have vendors/manufacturers take an interest in our feedback.

Unfortunately, it has often been the case that vendors will abuse the privilege, and post multiple threads pimping their wares, or be extremely forward in soliciting business. We (meaning the membership as well as the staff), take a dim view of that, to put it mildly. The staff appreciates when such activities are reported.

I haven't read each and every word of this thread, but after a quick review it appears that DMC is operating within the letter of the law.

Thanks, everybody, for your understanding and continued cooperation.

Thank you very much for clearing this up for me, I appreciate it.

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd being that the last time I shared some pricing info I bothered a member I would be more than happy to share the details with you, but because I want to make sure I am not coming across the wrong way I would suggest sending me a direct message.

One thing that we do need to clear up though is that the quick change system its not just a serrated tooth cutter, there are 7 different thickness/style blades. They have serrated and flat blades, and we are now getting scarifier quick change and a carbide quick change. So the system allows itself to transform into any style of blade that currently exists but on one system. I just wanted to make sure to get that across because if it was only a serrated blade option I would agree that it does not make sense to get the system just for one use. This however is not the case as you can see from the image there are many different styles.

Nice dance.

I think your system would be extremely expensive because I would also have to buy your regular cutters to "fit" the hardware I had to purchase to bolt onto my moldboard. So once I convert to your system I am committed to it and must purchase all the expendables thru your company?

I'm just trying to clarify a cost ratio to this product compared to simply using standard, replaceable cutters. For example, we purchased our Sandvic's 20 years ago paying $4K for a 14' moldboard. Sounds like a very high cost until you realize the life span and the ability to swap in/out any other type of cutter.

Any time a "new" product is discussed I like to see a cost estimate. Without that estimate how can anyone know the value of the product?

So maybe what I should have asked is what's the "ballpark" cost of all the hardware necessary to convert my moldboard to accept your cutters? Then we can assume your various types of cutters are comparably priced to other brands.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Nice dance.

I think your system would be extremely expensive because I would also have to buy your regular cutters to "fit" the hardware I had to purchase to bolt onto my moldboard. So once I convert to your system I am committed to it and must purchase all the expendables thru your company?

I'm just trying to clarify a cost ratio to this product compared to simply using standard, replaceable cutters. For example, we purchased our Sandvic's 20 years ago paying $4K for a 14' moldboard. Sounds like a very high cost until you realize the life span and the ability to swap in/out any other type of cutter.

Any time a "new" product is discussed I like to see a cost estimate. Without that estimate how can anyone know the value of the product?

So maybe what I should have asked is what's the "ballpark" cost of all the hardware necessary to convert my moldboard to accept your cutters? Then we can assume your various types of cutters are comparably priced to other brands.

Thanks for your patience.

Sorry for the delay in this response, I can certainly give you a ballpark and hopefully lessen your worry a bit about being tied into one supplier. I do understand the worry of buying into a system and being at the mercy of one supplier, there are some competitors so the pricing market stays competitive so that is good for you. Secondly, the ballpark cost for the mounting boards is around $45/ft the majority of the cost comes from the actual hardware that is included (wedge, wedge bolt, washer, bolts, etc). The blades range in price from $20/ft up to $45 depending on which style you go with (flat, bx500 (honeycomb), 5/8" flat, 3/4" flat, 5/8" BX500, quick change carbide (more than $45/ft) quick change scarifier board(over $45) so it really is a one stop system for any type of blade you want to run on the conditions you encounter. Remember that if you compare these prices to your regular steels its like comparing the price of a porterhouse steak to the price of stew meat. Steel blades may touch 400 brinell, these blades are 520-600 Brinell depending on style. So not only are they going to double the typical wear life (at that point your ahead) they are also going to cut much easier as you operate them at a 70 degree angle. Always making a sharp angle on the bottom. This is where you save fuel, we have large counties who have cut their fuel bill by 40-50% (pays for the mounting board quickly) and then your literally making money by running these blades. The bonus is the quality of your roads due to always being able to cut washboards and potholes, and the ease of change making it much easier on the body and getting full use out of the steel by rotating. There are a couple guys running them down in Missouri.

 

[20/80]

I have been to a demo on this type of blades seen in the vid, in my honest opinion they would work good on well graveled roads only, if you grade roads in areas where there is ledge, blue rock, and boulders through out the road then you are going to have problems, I would not want to ditch with this type of blades in my area either it wouldn't be very long before they snapped off, I have had straight blades snap off and bend ditching in my area, my personal choice are the Sandvic's or as we call them stinger blades, we compare prices all the time in our shops stingers compared to straight blades, the guy's that prefer straight blades use on average two sets a week at around $350 a set, so that on average is $700 a week give or take, at round 25 weeks a year depending on the weather and winter moving in, if were not grading were ditching, that's around $14000 give or take a season with straight blades, stingers blades I get on average 2 years out of them at $4600 for a full set and I use them for ice blading in the winter also, and replace bits from time to time where some may break or bend during ditching, I always use tranny fluid on the bits to keep them spinning freely and use these blades for everything, as far as price savings its a no brainer.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

I have been to a demo on this type of blades seen in the vid, in my honest opinion they would work good on well graveled roads only, if you grade roads in areas where there is ledge, blue rock, and boulders through out the road then you are going to have problems, I would not want to ditch with this type of blades in my area either it wouldn't be very long before they snapped off, I have had straight blades snap off and bend ditching in my area, my personal choice are the Sandvic's or as we call them stinger blades, we compare prices all the time in our shops stingers compared to straight blades, the guy's that prefer straight blades use on average two sets a week at around $350 a set, so that on average is $700 a week give or take, at round 25 weeks a year depending on the weather and winter moving in, if were not grading were ditching, that's around $14000 give or take a season with straight blades, stingers blades I get on average 2 years out of them at $4600 for a full set and I use them for ice blading in the winter also, and replace bits from time to time where some may break or bend during ditching, I always use tranny fluid on the bits to keep them spinning freely and use these blades for everything, as far as price savings its a no brainer.

Thats great to hear what your thoughts are 20/80 and I am in complete understanding that everyone does have their choice for their roads. Now what happens sometimes is that people see this system as having only the honeycomb blade option. There are 6 different blade options along with a quick change scarifier board, and carbide. Now when you speak about the guys who use straight blades and they are using 2 sets of week, with our 5/8" straight blade they would cut that usage in half at the very least so you would be using at most 1 set a week. Typically our other customers can get 3-4 weeks on a set of 5/8" flats. I do understand every road and area is different though. Now when we speak about ditching, that again is a time where it would be convenient to switch to our thinnest flat blade, this blade is perfect for ditching. Then when time to use your scarifiers knock off wedges and put your scarifiers on. When we speak about scarifiers the only real argument we find is that they "last a long time" and that is very true. We sell plenty of scarifier systems and quite honestly are happy too. However when your talking about actual cutting, rotation of material, and having precision over your grade the scarifiers can not compete with a straight blade. They also burn a lot more fuel because your constantly pushing a 1" - 1.5" piece of steel/carbide into the earth. Now again yes they will outlast the blades, but it comes down to what your objectives are. If its strictly just trying to use something that will last the longest per set yes your scarifiers are the one; but when you talk economics and money saving attributes the scarifiers fall by the way side with fuel cost, the time you take soaking them in tranny fluid, more wear and tear on your machine because they pull much harder than a standard blade. Again I 100% believe that every type of blade has a place, but we have crunched the numbers and the quick change blades would destroy scarifier bits on a cost basis, and the add ons of being able to change your blade to your conditions easily (not every road needs to be hit with scarifier bits), the cab envirionment (running your blade at 1500-2000 rpm because these blades cut with ease) and alleviating any worry that maybe your bits arent spinning your way ahead. The beauty with it is that there is a quick change scarifier board as well so you can still use the scarifier bits when you need them. I say this with 100% respect, because I truly enjoy when people share their ideas and that is how we move on to better understanding. Thank you 20/80

 

[20/80]

Well... i'm not sure how to answer to your reply, the amount of time I have used straight blades compared to stinger blades are around the same and saying that I prefer stingers over all, calling cutting edges straight blades is kind of farthest from the truth, straight blades never stay straight, they wear in the middle and at one end, you have to offset your center pin to combat keeping them straight so you won't lose your material when spreading or start a cut on the wrong side off the road to combat this which is a no no, stinger blades always stay straight which makes them great for spreading, not everybody can use stingers, old hands do not like change and stingers are aggressive, you have to know what your doing but the end result after you get used to them is rewarding, I realize that your company uses higher strength steel in your products to slow down wear but at a cost, I will have to strongly disagree that stinger blades can't compete with straight blades or even your honeycomb style blades, not only that, I burn less fuel than my partner on his new 140m machine using straight blades, often in the middle of the summer when the road is really hard he would have to switch blades to stingers to cut the road, I am not sold on your mounting system either, I would not be able to make a pass ditching in this area without snapping or losing a wedge lock, I have seen this happen in one of our sister shops using your honeycomb style blades, I think your system would work well for just easy normal grading.

 

[DMC-Wear-Parts]

Well... i'm not sure how to answer to your reply, the amount of time I have used straight blades compared to stinger blades are around the same and saying that I prefer stingers over all, calling cutting edges straight blades is kind of farthest from the truth, straight blades never stay straight, they wear in the middle and at one end, you have to offset your center pin to combat keeping them straight so you won't lose your material when spreading or start a cut on the wrong side off the road to combat this which is a no no, stinger blades always stay straight which makes them great for spreading, not everybody can use stingers, old hands do not like change and stingers are aggressive, you have to know what your doing but the end result after you get used to them is rewarding, I realize that your company uses higher strength steel in your products to slow down wear but at a cost, I will have to strongly disagree that stinger blades can't compete with straight blades or even your honeycomb style blades, not only that, I burn less fuel than my partner on his new 140m machine using straight blades, often in the middle of the summer when the road is really hard he would have to switch blades to stingers to cut the road, I am not sold on your mounting system either, I would not be able to make a pass ditching in this area without snapping or losing a wedge lock, I have seen this happen in one of our sister shops using your honeycomb style blades, I think your system would work well for just easy normal grading.

The fact that straight blades burn in the middle is a problem, and that is why it is such a great thing to be able to rotate the 3' and 4' sections of the quick change blades around and evenly wear your blade so that you do not have to compromise the use of your grader because your blade is letting you down. When rotated correctly your blade will always be a relative, not perfect, straight edge. Our blade is not simply just the honeycomb but we offer flat blades that fit the quick mount too. I appreciate also that you are able to use less fuel than your partner but that is a small sample size. We have worked with 80-100 different motor graders, and the results are quite obvious on fuel usage. The largest differences in fuel usage come from those who run double carbides or scarifier boards. It is great though that you are able to run your machine in an efficient way for fuel. The points you are making about potentially breaking off a wedge pin in a very tough area of ditch is true, but its also an extreme "worst case scenario" type argument. Overall the system does well in a variety of conditions. As I said earlier I believe that each individual type of blade does have a place; overall from someone who sells all the different types of blades the quick change system is overall the most versatile for use and potential savings. If your having great results with your bits, then you should stick to them. There are plenty of operators who are looking for something better (like your partner maybe) who do appreciate all the benefits associated with this system. Thanks!

 

[ovrszd]

Sorry for the delay in this response, I can certainly give you a ballpark and hopefully lessen your worry a bit about being tied into one supplier. I do understand the worry of buying into a system and being at the mercy of one supplier, there are some competitors so the pricing market stays competitive so that is good for you. Secondly, the ballpark cost for the mounting boards is around $45/ft the majority of the cost comes from the actual hardware that is included (wedge, wedge bolt, washer, bolts, etc). The blades range in price from $20/ft up to $45 depending on which style you go with (flat, bx500 (honeycomb), 5/8" flat, 3/4" flat, 5/8" BX500, quick change carbide (more than $45/ft) quick change scarifier board(over $45) so it really is a one stop system for any type of blade you want to run on the conditions you encounter. Remember that if you compare these prices to your regular steels its like comparing the price of a porterhouse steak to the price of stew meat. Steel blades may touch 400 brinell, these blades are 520-600 Brinell depending on style. So not only are they going to double the typical wear life (at that point your ahead) they are also going to cut much easier as you operate them at a 70 degree angle. Always making a sharp angle on the bottom. This is where you save fuel, we have large counties who have cut their fuel bill by 40-50% (pays for the mounting board quickly) and then your literally making money by running these blades. The bonus is the quality of your roads due to always being able to cut washboards and potholes, and the ease of change making it much easier on the body and getting full use out of the steel by rotating. There are a couple guys running them down in Missouri.

Can you give me the names and phone numbers of the Missouri guys running your system?? Thanks!!!

 

[20/80]

Well... while you are on the side of the road rotating your blades I just cut another mile of road, that's money lost, we have 1500 pieces of equipment when you factor in our sister shops, 200 of them a graders some new some older with a assortment of brands, i'm well aware of fuel costs and fuel savings, from the spring to the fall when the ground freezes I burnt 11892 litres of fuel in a 140h with a 3176 11 litre engine, my partner in a newer, 140 m with a c7 engine same time period burnt 1000 litres more, he has 43 roads to maintain I have 60, he uses straight blades I use stinger blades, so just in our shop stingers are more efficient, other shops are seeing the same results, I can't see using your system being any more efficient.

 

[cuttin edge]

Well... while you are on the side of the road rotating your blades I just cut another mile of road, that's money lost, we have 1500 pieces of equipment when you factor in our sister shops, 200 of them a graders some new some older with a assortment of brands, i'm well aware of fuel costs and fuel savings, from the spring to the fall when the ground freezes I burnt 11892 litres of fuel in a 140h with a 3176 11 litre engine, my partner in a newer, 140 m with a c7 engine same time period burnt 1000 litres more, he has 43 roads to maintain I have 60, he uses straight blades I use stinger blades, so just in our shop stingers are more efficient, other shops are seeing the same results, I can't see using your system being any more efficient.

You work for Dexters?

 

[20/80]

You work for Dexters?

I work for the province, and its all about saving money and being more efficient, my machine has its own budget, also all of the roads that I am responsible for have their own individual budgets for grading, ditching, culverts and road recovery also winter maintenance, all budgets are carefully watched and audited on a regular basis.

 

[ovrszd]

Well... while you are on the side of the road rotating your blades I just cut another mile of road, that's money lost, we have 1500 pieces of equipment when you factor in our sister shops, 200 of them a graders some new some older with a assortment of brands, i'm well aware of fuel costs and fuel savings, from the spring to the fall when the ground freezes I burnt 11892 litres of fuel in a 140h with a 3176 11 litre engine, my partner in a newer, 140 m with a c7 engine same time period burnt 1000 litres more, he has 43 roads to maintain I have 60, he uses straight blades I use stinger blades, so just in our shop stingers are more efficient, other shops are seeing the same results, I can't see using your system being any more efficient.

I can't see any advantage of this system over Stingers/Sandviks. That's why I was wanting names/phone numbers of users in my State. I'd like to visit with users in similar situations as mine.

 

[20/80]

I can't see any advantage of this system over Stingers/Sandviks. That's why I was wanting names/phone numbers of users in my State. I'd like to visit with users in similar situations as mine.

Have you ever been to a demo on these types of blades? if not if you ever get the chance go to it, be interested in your thoughts on them.