Purchased a Horbart Ironman 230 MIG welder have a ? on which wire size to use?

[lake side bob]

Getting into MIG welding.
My question is which wire size to use with the Horbat Ironman 230 welder.
On this project the MIG was purchased for; is to weld together 1/4 inch steel 3 inch square steel tubing for a rock grizzle frame, I have a 1.75 cy yd wheel loader.
I have been told by an "expert MIG welder" that I should use .030 non flux wire with 75/25 gas mixture.
Because - its like a 5/8 inch water hose with a nozzle compared to a 5/8 water hose with out a nozzle.
Was told the .030 will give deeper penetration into the steel then the .035 wire.
What do you experienced welders say?

Would straight CO2 gas work just as well as 75/25 mix gas? What would be the difference between the two? Never ran into this question with the Miller stick welder.

Should I grind the edges of the 1/4 thick 3 inch steel square tubing before I weld the tubes together to make the frame?
Say grind 1/16 off the edges that contacts the other tube face, the other edges does not contact as they are on the curve of the other tube.

With this Horbart Iron man 230 should I preheat the steel before welding? Read some where on the net about preheating steel before welding with MIG to get deep weld.

Anyone use the Horbart Iron Man 230 Mig welder before, if so what is your impression, I have read positive comments on the web and no negative comments?

 

[monster76]

Im no mig expert but in my small experience welding with mig i like to use the wire that is fluxcore and still uses shielding gas its produce a nice qaulity weld and from what ive experienced is a bit more forgiving when a little wind blows by as your welding but im sure some with more welding experience will chime in and give you the correct answer.

 

[farmerlund]

If you are outside use the fluxcore plus gas. if you weld mostly inside I use solid core with 75-25 gas. solid core makes a nicer weld most if the time.

I don't think .035 is to big for what you are doing, smaller wire sometimes needs multiple passes. you have enough power to weld 1/4" in one pass with .035. no need to preheat.

I like to bevel the edges a little. If its only 1/4" its not that big of deal. Wire welders don't like rust, scale, grease, paint or any other impurities. Clean steel works way better.

With time you will figure out temp and wire speed settings that work for your welder, they all are a little different. If you bought it new it should have settings chart to get you started.

good luck

 

[willie59]

:iagree What he said.

Also, big difference between 100% CO2 and 75/25 mix. Straight CO2 makes a hotter arc for deeper penetration or for use in spray welding, not necessary and maybe even problematic butt joining 1/4" tubing. 75/25 will work much better in that application and general all purpose welding.

 

[Firemanmike69]

Run the .035 solid wire or .035 "dualshield" ie. flux core with co2. If you use fluxcore wire you will need knurled drive rollers for the wire. The co2 will give a little hotter arc and be cheaper at the expense of more spatter and the possibility of the regulator freezing up with extended passes

 

[John C.]

The only time I've used anything smaller than .045 was in my beer can welder in my garage. I've used .045 with the smaller welders before. You just have to make sure you stay within the duty cycle of the machine.

Hard wire makes for a bit of a brittle weld but is good enough in most cases. We usually used it for sheet metal and light duty items. If the weldment was for a structure where someone could get hurt by a failure we always used dual shield and 75/25 mix. You are talking some heavy stuff and if the grizzly is the front end of a crushing plant, you don't want big chunks of steel making a mess of everything. The other issue is the time it would take you to do the project with the small wire. Using the bigger wire will cut your welding time by at least a third. Weld penetration is usually a function of lots of amps and volts and the right wire feed speed and technique. In my experience Mig welding doesn't penetrate much at all, especially compared to most stick welding. Beveled edges and clean steel are a necessary preparation for using a squirt gun.

 

[lantraxco]

My $.02 only, free advice is always worth what you pay for it.... Once you get to 1/8 or thicker material wire size is really not a big deal it's just a matter of adjusting wire feed speed, but I prefer .035 up to about 3/8" or so, then .045 for 3/8 and thicker. .030 is good for thinner material, but will bind in the liner easier than the bigger wires. Hard wire works well with a mixed gas, the 75/25 will give you a more fluid puddle and it cools slower so it may be a bit troublesome on vertical and overhead welds. Straight Co2 is fast freezing and more aggressive (think 6011 stick rod) so it's faster and easier to do vertical and such, but in my experience this is where you may see a more brittle weld. For fast welding and excellent weld joint for flat work only, about 200 amps with .035 bare wire and a 98/2 mix gas will let you spray arc, love it.

I personally don't like the flux core wires used without gas, maybe it's just me I don't like the way they weld and the appearance of the weld.

My current favorite is .045 dual shield flux core wire with 75/25 gas, I'm using Lincoln 71A85 UltraCore. It's a good all position wire and welds 1/8" to 3/8" in a single pass, 1/2" on a fillet takes two. My welder shows I'm running about 185-200 amps on heavy stuff so your Hobart should be way happy with it.

I wouldn't bother chamfering the edges of your tube much, just hit it enough to debur it on the outside edge all around. I usually preheat just enough to drive the moisture off. Clean is a must with tubing as it's usually oily, I use lacquer thinner or brake clean, something that will evap away quickly and not leave any residue.

Take a few scrap ends and pieces and do a few practice welds starting with the settings in the chart which is usually on the inside of the welder door, then adjust a bit on your voltage and speed until you feel good about running the weld and how it looks after. Weld a couple short flat pieces together, do a "T" with a fillet on one side and then break it apart in a vice, see what the penetration looks like. Wire is perfectly capable of excellent penetration and weld strength, it's just a matter of the proper wire, gas, settings, and procedure. The danger with wire is that you CAN get a weld that looks beautiful but has absolutely no penetration or strength.

Pictures as you go please!

 

[DB2]

Good advise on breaking the practise welds in a vise. If the weld itself breaks the penetration is good. If it breaks off the material then more heat or slower movement is required.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . lantraxco

The danger with wire is that you CAN get a weld that looks beautiful but has absolutely no penetration or strength.

Good one mate, truer words were never written . . . this point needs to be hammered home again and again.

Cheers

 

[willie59]

I use lacquer thinner or brake clean, something that will evap away quickly and not leave any residue.

Something I forgot to add, one should avoid using chlorinated brake cleaner during a MIG welding project. The main ingredient in chlorinated brake cleaner is Tetrachloroethylene. When it's mixed with heat and argon (used in the MIG process) it becomes Phosgene gas (used in WWI along with mustard gas). It only takes a little whiff of Phosgene to cause serious respiratory problems and can be fatal with a dose as little as 4 ppm.

Although brake cleaner does evaporate, if just one droplet remained and you ran across it with a MIG welder you could encounter a serious, even life threatening problem, not a desirable outcome for a welding project.

 

[lantraxco]

Good catch Willie! Um.. can you even buy chlorinated brake cleaner anymore?

I'll stick with lacquer thinner or mineral spirits I think!

 

[willie59]

Good catch Willie! Um.. can you even buy chlorinated brake cleaner anymore?

Yep, you sure can here, California laws haven't totally moved east of the Mississippi just yet.

Lacquer thinner works very well. If I don't want to affect paint (which lacquer thinner will) in the area near the weld I'll give it a shot of starting fluid and blow it off with compressed air to remove oil residue.

 

[Delmer]

Any NON flammable brake cleaner is chlorinated. They come in both flavors here. Easy to tell apart by the warnings on the can.

 

[JD955SC]

If the weld itself breaks the penetration is good. If it breaks off the material then more heat or slower movement is required.

I think you have that backwards.

 

[Randy88]

Had a Hobart wire welder for 30 years, a great welder, you just need to never exceed duty cycle of the welder, which isn't much on higher amps. On what your welding, I'd never consider anything less than .035 wire. I use CO2 myself, its about a third or less the cost of the mixed gas's as long as your inside and out of the wind, but has more splatter with it, just crank up the heat on your Hobart and get some better penetration with it and you'll do just fine. I'd bevel the edges on anything flat and do multiple passes, just bear in mind the duty cycle, or in other words, it had better sit with the cooling fan running more than your welding. My old 250 had a high side and low side, not sure if the 230 has this or not, but on high side I had excellent penetration, on doing what your doing, I'd run about 200-230 amps, how your welder performs for sure I'd have no idea, every model is different.

Every make of wire is different and weld somewhat differently, so what works in one welder great may not do much in the next welder, on my Hobart I loved the washinton wire, for some reason it just did far better, welded nicer over a variety of conditions and we never had issues with it. I hated several brands of wire I'd tried with my Hobart, can't recall now what brands they were now after all those years, they were hard to adjust the feed speeds and we not so forgiving and just for some reason, we'd never get the sizzle or noise I'd like with the welder while welding, they were more prone to tip sticking and burn back and a whole host of issues, basically I tossed them out and went back to using washinton wire again with my Hobart. I've welded with a variety of different mig's over the years, each has its own set of perimeters to get used to, and learn how to adjust to get your desired welds and how they preformed on different heat settings with different brands of wire.

Do some test welds, bend and break them in the vise, keep going till you bend the steel and break nothing is what I'd do, as for what breaks first the weld or the steel where its joined, with your Hobart just keep adjusting your heat and speed and rate you weld and also your technique of welding side the side or however you weld till you work it out. Start with small stuff, say 1/4 inch and work your way up, till you can't even bend the pieces in a vice, nor break them either, then your on your way to doing a good job, but then again I'm just a putter azz doing repairs on my own junk, I'm no professional and am no certified welder.