Problems with JD 200C LC

[USNSeaBeeMech]

ok guys im deployed out in afghan and we have a 2006 john deere 200c lc excavator that wont start because of the fuel shutoff soelnoid on the injection pump, the only way to start it is to jump the solenoid with a 12v battery, because the plug that plugs into it is not getting a constant 12v it is jumping between 9-11v when we crank the engine and nothing with the key on, do you guys have any ideas? And also how can you erase the fault codes without having the electronic diagnosis tool? And is there anyway to override the engine protection system? thanks dan

 

[bolt thrower]

My initial attack would be to check for a blown fuse then faulty key switch.

 

[heavylift]

also look at the different connectors in the line for corrosion...

 

[RKO]

First the 200C should be a 24 volt system.

You don't have the batteries wired right. They should be wired in series.
First battery, Negative to ground, positive from that battery to negative of the other battery, positive of second battery to starter.

2@ 12 volt Batteries wired in series = 24 volts to the machine.

The machine will probably crank and could start but the ECM will not work right with only 12 volts

 

[Colorado Digger]

we had that problem on a case 9020. try wiring the solenoid plunger. it will run wide open...... better than nothing. especially if you need it.

 

[USNSeaBeeMech]

rko the batteries are wired up properly, the 24v system steps down to 12v for the injection pump fuel shutoff solenoid, what im trying to figure out is why there is not a constant 12v to the plug when i test it with the multimeter, but when you jump the solenoid with a 12v battery giving it a constant 12v it fires right up. So what is causing the lack of voltage is it the ecm?? Is there a way to override the engine protection system or reset the ecm without the diagnostic equipment? thanks

 

[bobin35]

Have you got 3 wires to the solenoid?if so one is ground one is hot when starting and the last one should be hot when engine is running wire the solenoid open and start the machine then chec to see if you have power on the wire that isnt hot with the key on if you have power then the solenoid is bad,one wire is pull in to get the machine started the other one is a hold wire,that hold the plunger in while running because if it used the pull in circuit to make it run itburns up the solenoid.

 

[USNSeaBeeMech]

bobin it is only a 2 wire plug one hot one ground

 

[RKO]

rko the batteries are wired up properly, the 24v system steps down to 12v for the injection pump fuel shutoff solenoid, what im trying to figure out is why there is not a constant 12v to the plug when i test it with the multimeter, but when you jump the solenoid with a 12v battery giving it a constant 12v it fires right up. So what is causing the lack of voltage is it the ecm?? Is there a way to override the engine protection system or reset the ecm without the diagnostic equipment? thanks

The 200C I have has 24 volts to the injection pump. I just checked it out. If it is suppose to have just 12V, The machine starts and runs great so I don't think something is wrong with it, At least I'm not going to change it. The only place I have 12V is to the Radio, cig lighter. I have a converter in the cab that changes 24V to 12V for that.
The manuals I have don't show a converter to change voltage for the engine injection pump fuel shutoff.
If it is 12V There has has to be a converter someplace.

 

[cutting edge]

what codes do you have on the DDU (little gauge where the ecu is)?

Does it have a Stanadyne pump or a bosch?

 

[cps]

The 200C I have has 24 volts to the injection pump. I just checked it out. If it is suppose to have just 12V, The machine starts and runs great so I don't think something is wrong with it, At least I'm not going to change it. The only place I have 12V is to the Radio, cig lighter. I have a converter in the cab that changes 24V to 12V for that.
The manuals I have don't show a converter to change voltage for the engine injection pump fuel shutoff.
If it is 12V There has has to be a converter someplace.

I agree you should have 24v and the solenoid!

 

[USNSeaBeeMech]

I agree you should have 24v and the solenoid!

its is only 12v volt because it has the stanadyne pump, if ti was a bosch like urs then it would be the 24v system, uh i have the codes written down somewere i will put them up tomorrow, pretty sure we fried the fuel control solenoid on the back of the pump though from jumping it, so yeh its pretty much screwed now...

 

[gmjones420]

bobin it is only a 2 wire plug one hot one ground

i had one do the same thing and when i found it' it was the wire ends where they cremped on lost con.

 

[d9gdon]

Now I'm having the same problem as the original poster. I don't have any codes being thrown. If I unplug the solenoid and spin over the engine, it will throw a serv code but I can't tell what it is because the up and down arrow key doesn't work on the fault code gauge. However, the code goes away when I plug it back in and spin it over. This is a Stanadyne DE10 rotary pump on a 6068H059 engine.

I just rebuilt the engine and had the injector pump and injectors rebuilt. It has 97 hours on it now. I just happened to be watching and listening to the machine as it was loading a truck when it suddenly started blowing a steady stream of black smoke. I ran down to have the operator kill it and started checking it out. I've been in contact with the pump shop. They thought it was airlocked after I found some bad seals on the low pressure fuel lines as it will not do any more than spit some aerated fuel at the injectors. Does not try to fire. I have the timing pins to verify timing, but will have to wait for the engine turning tool to arrive UPS Monday to get TDC. It was easy to turn with the flywheel when I had the engine out of the machine, but I can't find anywhere to slowly turn it now that it's back in.

I know how to bleed the system, so I'm confident that's not it. I checked all sensor connections(crank, fuel temp, fuel solenoid, manifold, oil pressure, water temp, water level, etc.) I am getting between 7-8 volts to the fuel solenoid as I spin it over. It seems that the solenoid is bad. The best I can tell from the manual and the pump shop is that it does not receive 12 volts at the solenoid, something less.

The pump shaft and gear are turning as I verified that already.

Can I change the solenoid without removing the pump? Again, no codes that I see. If it throws a code, doesn't the warning light come on the instrument panel and show the code on the fault gauge by the ECU in the battery compartment?

Of course I'll get the pump repair shop involved in it so the warranty will remain, but wanted to know whether I was going in the right direction or if I need to go farther in checking to make sure it's not the machine sensors causing the no fueling situation.

 

[d9gdon]

SOL, gotta pull the pump to change the fuel solenoid. I took it back to the pump shop. Told one of the guys I thought the solenoid was bad..."Yep, that's normally what happens to 'em." We'll see...of course it's raining.

 

[willie59]

I hope they help you make it right d9gdon. We have a 200C LC in our rental fleet, it's been a helluva good machine, no complaints about the overall machine myself.

 

[d9gdon]

I wanted to update this in case somebody else runs into this.

The problem turned out to be #1 injector tip was half blown off. The pump shop said probably water stopping up the tip. Could have been trash.

I sent the pump back to the pump shop and they sent it back saying everything checked out. I reinstalled it and it did pump more to the injectors but still wouldn't start. I finally got it started on starting fluid and it was smoking like hell. I cracked the injectors and found a dead miss on #1.

We(the pump shop and I) put two and two together to decide that engine compression was pumping back into the injector pump and aerating the fuel which is why it wouldn't pump hardly anything to the injectors. This would have been simpler with an inline injection pump that would've started easily and just missed on one cylinder.

This is also why it didn't throw any codes.