potential new owner, looking for opinions please

[fordtrucknut]

hello all.
i'm in the market for a backhoe loader and have my eyes on a few.
the main one i'm interested in is a late 70's CASE 780. full cab, has extendable hoe, 3 buckets and the regular loader, plus the parts and service/repair manuals
second in line is a early 80's CASE 580B full cab, extendable hoe, and a clam-shell loader. only 1 hoe bucket
third in line is a mid 80's CAT 416. open cab 1 hoe bucket and a regular loader.

this will be used for farm use on my 40 acres. the land is extremely rocky(zero topsoil), when they came in and put my water line in from the well 800ft, we went down 6 ft looking for the rocks to stop(they never did)...it tore up their trencher and they had to do it by a backhoe, they used a 680 to finish the job, it did pretty good.

next summer i'll be building my house and have to cut section of hill side level, 150x200ft or so area, and about 6-8 feet deep on the top side. the waste fill will only be moved to the end of the cut to fill out the hill side more.. I was quoted by a local guy 8k for the work, and decided if I can get a hoe for just a bit more and have it for other uses..

it will be used to remove stumps that have been cut flush, about 40 of them, and to clean out some small ponds, and other work here and there. oh and if the ole lady has her way an inground pool later on.

I think the 580 will be plenty for me, but it is right in the same price range as the 780 minus the delivery charges on the 780.. , and the extra power will be there if I need it,

also I cant find much info online about the 780, except it was the biggest one ever made, and uses wheel loader parts on some of it. so any info you might have would be great.

thank you for your time.

 

[LT-x7]

I have next to 0 experience with the old case hoes, so I cant help you there. Were the 580b's made in the 80's? I thought they were early 70's vintage.....
But as far as your house pad goes, $8k sounds way to cheap to me. Maybe someone closer to you can comment because I know prices very widely in different parts of the country. That sounds like a huge house pad, about 3k yards with slopes by my math, in rock. I could see this job taking a few months with just an antique backhoe, that's assuming an operator with experience. You didn't mention if you had any prior experience running backhoe's or other equipment.
I don't want to try to discourage you, but that's a heck of a first project to tackle.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[roddyo]

The 416 would be my pick. It was built with really good components and was a pretty good backhoe. It's also wider/more stable IMO. It's also the newest

I would run like the wind from the 780. Case doesn't have the best reputation supporting its older machines. If you are considering this machine you should start of at the parts counter checking some parts availability IMO.

The 580B. Its not one that trips my trigger unless it's lots better than the Cat. A really solid machine, I just like the wider machines in open spaces. Are they lighter, yes. Did they seem to have more power, yes. Does a really quick and nimble machine matter on a 40 acre rock pile? IMO, not so much

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums fordtrucknut!:drinkup

I can't comment on the older Case backhoes as I have no experience with them but I can comment on your proposed project - it's very ambitious with just a backhoe in rock.:cool2

Like LT-x7 said, that's a lot of dirt/rock to move. Averaging a 3' cut in a 150x200' area is 3333 CY of material - without a swell factor. That's a mountain of material to move with a backhoe. It can be done, as anything can with time and perseverance but just be prepared for it to take a long while.

Personally I wouldn't have drove my pickup to the site to take a look at this job for $2.40 per CY, assuming an average 3' cut, less per CY if the cut is deeper.

If the guy you got the quote from is reputable and can get it done - take his money.:cool2 You will be way ahead and still be able to purchase an older backhoe to use around the farm.

I am not here to discourage you but give advice in $$$ and cents.

 

[mitch504]

I agree with everybody here. (I don't say that often):beatsme

The 780s are rare birds, it'd be nice to have in a museum, but not working. Parts availability will be terrible.

580b is a very early '70s machine, not '80s. They were good for their time, but nothing against a modern hoe. They have nowhere near the power or weight.

I have very little expereience w/ 416s, but they seem to be pretty good, that's hard for a long-time Case man to say, but that's the only one I'd walk across the street to look at.

Now, on the other subject, I've never worked in much rock, but even in our SC coastal sand and clay, this'd be a big job for just an old backhoe, or even a new one.

Good Luck,
Mitch

On edit: One more thought for you. If you just are carrying that 3333 yds to the end of the cut, say 300 foot average haul, you will probably avg .5 yds to the bucket. (I know they say 1 yd bucket, but it is hard to get a full bucket in rock, particularly w/ a 2wd machine and a new operator) that is six thousand-six hundred-sixty-six (6,666) trips, for a total mileage of 757.5 miles.

 

[LT-x7]

Did the contractor that gave you the bid for 8k give you an estimate of how long he thought it would take him? Or what type of equipment he planed to use?

 

[fordtrucknut]

thanks for all of the info, had a buddy come over and he did a rough shoot(cant do good shoot of the land until my mobilehome is moved), the actual cut will only be about 5 maybe 6 feet deep to level it out.but where the house is going will be 3 additional foot cut(before digging out for the house foundation footings and walls) **it is going to be an earth berm home, but you walk into the front door and step down into the house**
i've included a rough sketch we did of the land shape and where the house is going. I was way over measuring from my first post, I used a cheap range finder and converted it to feet.... **sorry**

the 416 is out of the question.. it was only about 40 min down the road so we went and checked it out, it is in really rough shape, it runs and digs but it has been highly neglected, most of the cyl. have at least a little oil leak or worse(2 need rebuilt yesterday) and lets not talk about the oil coming from under it) ( owner is a saw mill)
also called the guy about the 780, 95% of the hoses were replaced within the last 5 years, and the cyl's were rebuilt about 6-7 years ago. (the owner is a premiere home builder, and he has service records for it and all receipts on work done since he has owned it.
couldnt get a hold of the 580 owner....

also the guy that I got the quote from is just a local older guy with a dozer about the size of a D5, and i remember him having a JCB backhoe about the size of the 580,( he has done small work before for me) he told me 3-5 days at most but i know from past dealing with him, he starts about 9am and ends about 5pm. and takes about an hour for lunch.

I've operated excavators(newer Deere 230's and 240's), and old D7s but havent been on a backhoe in about 8 years, and then it was pretty much playing around. but i learned the others in just a few days to be pretty efficient. and i've got 6-8 months of practice before the project actually starts.

Thank you all.

 

[fordtrucknut]

i'm sorry I went back and looked at the AD for the 580, it is a 680E..... sorry, i've been looking at a whole bunch online lately and must have got my AD's mixed up.....

 

[LT-x7]

...... a local older guy with a dozer about the size of a D5, and i remember him having a JCB backhoe about the size of the 580.

D5 and a JCB backhoe huh..... Sounds familiar

I'm not sure I completely understand your sketch... Currently is the bottom left the highest point & the top right your lowest point? Are you planing on making the pad approximately half cut and half fill?
That still looks like a whole lot of work for just an old backhoe.

 

[fordtrucknut]

D5 and a JCB backhoe huh..... Sounds familiar

I'm not sure I completely understand your sketch... Currently is the bottom left the highest point & the top right your lowest point? Are you planing on making the pad approximately half cut and half fill?
That still looks like a whole lot of work for just an old backhoe.

The lowest point on the sketch is the low side of the hill. and the high side is the side that will be cut 5ft deep(initially). the "cut dirt/fill dirt" area is where all the moved dirt will be pushed to, it is the start of a "finger" in a draw. and the current lagoon will be filled to make way for a septic system.

I've seen areas bigger than this moved with just a excavator and a small bucket loader, that why I thought a good size back hoe would work, I know it would take a bit longer to do though.

maybe this picture is a little more clear on how the lay out is. by the way the driveway area will remain untouched as it is already at the right starting height.