Pickups

[KevD815]

HAHA well said Copenhagen. There is definately some weight behind your Ford in that picture!

This thread has really inspired a good rant so...

I'm pretty tired of toyota and other Jap truck drivers telling me that my truck is a "waste of fuel" and "status symbol". I drive a Chevy 1 ton with a 6 inch lift and some pretty mean mud tires. I use my truck as a truck every time i drive it. It's seen thousands of pounds of gravel, steel, lumber, and concrete. Its had firewood stacked up over the cab. It's towed equipment, boats, snowmobiles, and motorcycles. I run a mobile welding buisness so it's been through the woods with my 800lb welder, torch tanks, and tools and sometimes it comes back with a bucket or hydraulic cylinder in the back too. At the end of the day it needs look presentable enough to meet up with a new client to discuss a job. Some guys can get by with 2wd toyota flat bed. Thats great. A yota wouldnt last a week in my world. The jap guys can complain all they want, but I've got work to do...

 

[mitch504]

Not Picking On You

I don't mean to be picking on you two fellows; Copenhagen and KevD, but you are a good example of one of my points: The emotional investment of this subject. Nobody was talking about you and yet you are defensive. Obviously if you are going to tow a bobcat frequently you don't want one of the trucks Toyota sells in this country. Can either one of you honestly tell me you don't know anybody like the girl who lives beside my shop? She drives a 4x4 f350 diesel crewcab and a heavy load for her is when she has the neighbors kids and hers in the truck. Her truck has no trailer hitch of any kind. I see a lot more of these trucks used for these purposes than for heavy work. My sister owns 4 F-350s, three diesel,one 4x4. They work for a living as she owns a 96 stable horse farm.
I own a chevy ton truck with a service bed, for years I owned a toyota with a service bed, the main advantage to the chevy is space, and when the toyota had it's normal 2500 lbs of tools, welder, etc. (much less a trackhoe bucket on a trailer) you couldn't pass in a reasonable space with a jato rocket on the roof. The japanese makers haven't sold a commercial type pickup in the US since the 80's. The '86 1-Ton I still have has carried a 1-1/2 yd 4-n-1 loader bucket 200 miles at 70mph. My 93 shortbed toyota is mostly a cheap way to get to the parts store but it will carry what most f-150s will, it has no trouble with a ton of feed cause my father carried that every week for years in it. In other countries of course the Japs sell everything up to and including tractor-trailers and quarry dumps.

One thing I think is strange is the popularity of working out of shortbed pickups. If anyone could explain I would appreciate it.

Mitch:stirthepot or :deadhorse

 

[quackattak]

Prob 10% of the people that buy the big 4x4 american trucks use them to there full potential. Alot of people buy them as a status symbol, I talk to so many people that think they need a big diesel pu. The new fully loaded king ranch ford diesel is something like 64K, thats alot of wood hauling and skid loader pulling to pay off. I have a 90 f250 diesel that stays parked most the time, I just use it to haul or pull a trailer when I need to. My run around and do everything vehicle is my 82 mercedes 240d diesel, it can be shiny if I work at it, but I stopped trying to impress people quite a few years back.

 

[AusDave]

I don't get it

I use my truck for work, play and family transportation. I have never seen a Toyota or any other Japanese pickup with loads like these.

I was over 24,000 lbs in each of these pictures.

As far as metric vs. standard, I wish the US would make up it's mind. I don't care one way or the other but I am sick and tired of needing two sets of tools to work on my truck.

This is what I and I think some other Aussies don't get:beatsme Why use a styleside pickup which is not even a tipper and an expensive trailer with a fifth wheel hitch to carry earthmoving equipment when you could use a decent tipper??
The pictures below show what I mean.










If you move earth or just about anything a tipper is cool. A set of ramps and you can carry your skidsteer or excavator as well. If you have a skid and an ex you might then have a basic trailer so you can carry both at once. Though if you have a tandem tipper and not too big a skid and a mini ex you may stick them both in the tipper.

Cabover tippers here mean a relatively compact, manoeuvrable but still powerful truck still with a big enough tipper to carry what you want. You can also have dropsides and a space behind the cab for other gear. Or a crewcab design for more people carrying capacity.

You can have all this for about the same cost or less than a styleside pickup with a trailer. And you've got a tipper!! The cabover trucks we have are proper heavy duty trucks and would be much tougher than the Fords, Chevies and Dodges that many have on this forum.

I would have thought because of the tough times economically in the US you'd all be looking at ways to save cash and increase efficiency, and I might be biased, but it seems over here we have some good examples of how to do this. You can also have you fuel & oils on the truck, leave it on the job and commute with a cheap & economical car and save more!

However if you have a love affair with your pickup you may as well ignore this post.:Banghead

AusDave

 

[Orchard Ex]

Just a few bits for thought:
When I was a kid people towed boats, campers and small trailers with full size cars. They had big V8's (big back seats:naughty) and enough heft to handle a decent load. Now they are gone and full size doesn't mean anything near what it used to. So if you've got a regular Joe who wants to tow a (?toy?) he needs to get a pickup. Now lets say that he can't afford to have an extra vehicle sitting around just to tow or haul because of the cost of: a) the vehicle b) the insurance c) the maintenance d)the tags e)etc. etc. Whats he supposed to do? Most will get a pickup and use it for a daily driver. So it gets loaded up with the nice nice stuff that you would have in a car. Lots of guys would get a sporty car to drive to work , so if you are driving a p/u truck why not get one with lots of HP like in a car. Also, last time I looked at getting a mid sized PU it was priced within $3,000 of a full size, carried/towed much less and got about 1-2 MPG better fuel economy. :beatsme

As for the COE like AusDave pictured, I have seriously thought about getting one to replace my pickup for the business. However, they are pretty darn expensive over here last time I checked. I think that our prices for the styleside trucks that you mentioned might be a little better than what you'd pay. Just like the COE's are probably more reasonable in Oz. Economy of scale, public acceptance and product availability all come into play. I'd love to be able to buy a reasonably priced 1/2 ton with a smaller fuel efficient diesel that could tow 7-8000 lbs. But I can't buy what's not offered for sale here.

 

[willie59]

This is what I and I think some other Aussies don't get:beatsme Why use a styleside pickup which is not even a tipper and an expensive trailer with a fifth wheel hitch to carry earthmoving equipment when you could use a decent tipper??

If you move earth or just about anything a tipper is cool. A set of ramps and you can carry your skidsteer or excavator as well. If you have a skid and an ex you might then have a basic trailer so you can carry both at once. Though if you have a tandem tipper and not too big a skid and a mini ex you may stick them both in the tipper.

Cabover tippers here mean a relatively compact, manoeuvrable but still powerful truck still with a big enough tipper to carry what you want. You can also have dropsides and a space behind the cab for other gear. Or a crewcab design for more people carrying capacity.

You can have all this for about the same cost or less than a styleside pickup with a trailer. And you've got a tipper!! The cabover trucks we have are proper heavy duty trucks and would be much tougher than the Fords, Chevies and Dodges that many have on this forum.

I would have thought because of the tough times economically in the US you'd all be looking at ways to save cash and increase efficiency, and I might be biased, but it seems over here we have some good examples of how to do this. You can also have you fuel & oils on the truck, leave it on the job and commute with a cheap & economical car and save more!

However if you have a love affair with your pickup you may as well ignore this post.:Banghead

AusDave

All good points AusDave, but what you have there is a work truck, that's about it. And a good work truck set up it is, handy as a pocket on a shirt, but it's a work truck nonetheless. It's not so much we have a love affair with pickups. It's really quite simple, we use pickups as multipurpose vehicles. Some guys use them strictly as a work vehicle. Others, to haul loads as well as load up the bed with baseball bat bags and take the little league team to the games. Might use your truck for work during the week, then hook a boat or camper to it for an outing. I wouldn't want to drive a tipper with a camper trailer hooked to it to the campsite, nor would I want to launch a boat with one, I'll stick with a 4wd pickup on the boat ramp. Also, we have a good number of roads that some of those loads you show in pics would be a height problem. Right down the street from our shop, on a fairly main road, is an 11' 4" (roughly 3.5 meter) railroad underpass. That excavator on a tipper would be a problem in that situation, whereas that ex on a low trailer behind a pickup, no worries.

 

[barklee]

You guys are ATE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aussies you all have very good points but you are flurting on the side of offensive..... With that said, i think your trying to convert Americans to your ways are about as likely as us converting you to ours. I am not going to even try to justify the pros and cons to each point, (its all been said!) or throw any bombs at you (Keith Urban).... just kidding! I do like to see how other people do things though and i appreciate the ideas!
I do have a royal flush of a concept. We have bought 3 hook type roll off trucks over the last 5 years. A International 4400, a Ford F800, and a Kenworth T-800. This is a piece of equipment that is only limited by your imagination. I am seriously thinking about buying a F-550 or GMC cabover with a hook this fall. You have a dumper, container truck, flat bed, utility truck, or whatever you want to mount all in one truck.

On the metric conversation, i must say that i agree. Metric is the way to go. However if the metric system was our biggest problem i would be very happy!
Not being a smart ass, i really do like the ideas being tossed around!!!

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...good discussion going here fellers.

If you look back, one of the points to my original question at the start of the thread was the styleside or fleetside bodies...'specialy on a big high 4x4 they are a right royal pain in the ass.

I reckon the big rigs would be a bit more practical if you could load some fence posts or mulch bales over the side...yeah, yeah, I realise you can use the lowbed gooseneck but man, thats a complicated way of doing a simple job.

barklee...that hook truck setup sounds a pretty good idea. Do you have some picture

 

[barklee]

http://swaploader.com/cgi-bin/pro/emAlbum.cgi?c=show_album;p=Customer_Photos

That is not the brand we have but they have the best pics. I dont think they have any pics of smaller trucks, but you will get the idea

 

[AusDave]

Stirrin' the pot...

All good points AusDave, but what you have there is a work truck, that's about it. And a good work truck set up it is, handy as a pocket on a shirt, but it's a work truck nonetheless. It's not so much we have a love affair with pickups. It's really quite simple, we use pickups as multipurpose vehicles. Some guys use them strictly as a work vehicle. Others, to haul loads as well as load up the bed with baseball bat bags and take the little league team to the games. Might use your truck for work during the week, then hook a boat or camper to it for an outing. I wouldn't want to drive a tipper with a camper trailer hooked to it to the campsite, nor would I want to launch a boat with one, I'll stick with a 4wd pickup on the boat ramp. Also, we have a good number of roads that some of those loads you show in pics would be a height problem. Right down the street from our shop, on a fairly main road, is an 11' 4" (roughly 3.5 meter) railroad underpass. That excavator on a tipper would be a problem in that situation, whereas that ex on a low trailer behind a pickup, no worries.

Hi ATCOEQUIP, your points are well made and your contributions are welcome in this thread as you put some thought into your responses encouraging me to do the same.

There are a lot of similarities in Australia to the US as well as some obvious differences. It's a lot drier here in many places and the ground doesn't freeze in winter. However both countries have families, do sports and other recreational activities such as towing boats. I think what has happened over time in the USA is that fuel economy legislation, which has affected passenger vehicles, did not apply as rigorously to light trucks. SUVs are in the light truck category as well so fuel economy requirements are not as onerous to many of the vehicles used by smaller contractors on this forum. Cars became mainly front wheel drive leaving SUVs as rear wheel drive options.

In Australia we've actually been exporting some of our rear wheel GM cars in the past, which were rebadged as Buicks. Thats all over now with the GM shrinkage. But we've had the choice of Aussie made rear wheel drive cars, some of which come in 4WD, which are an economical choice compared to pickups and can tow about the same.
However we have a lot of choice in light and medium and heavyweight trucks from mainly Japan & Europe. Trucks like Toyotas Hino brand and the extensive Isuzu range are very popular and can be relatively inexpensive. Because these trucks have to comply with fuel economy regulations elsewhere in the world they have good fuel economy compared to US pickups. A couple of photos below are from the US from a similar discussion on another website Forum thread. This truck has a tilt tray and roll on/off can capability. Versatile!




A US owner of this type of truck which has a torquey 476 cu. inches / 200hp motor says "These trucks pencil out financially. They do not break down.... just don't. They are tough as nails and extremely reliable. Comparing an f550 to a Isuzu FRR is like comparing a Murray to an exmark. Got air assisted brakes? Got a jake brake? Got an inline six? Got 12mpg? Didn't think so." So it's just not me on the :soapbox

I suppose what I'm really getting at is, bearing in mind what the rest of the world uses and finds most efficient for work and play, can you guys stateside find a more efficient way with the vehicles you could use to do the same job with less cost? Surely to do so would be a big advantage for survival in a down economy...
The guys on the other Forum with these trucks seem to be doing well financially in the US.

Keepin' the pot stirred:stirthepot AusDave

 

[KevD815]

Barklee, thats a great point you have about hook trucks!

Last summer i worked along side an outfit (we had the bid for one building, they had the one next door) that used one of these very effectively. They adapted an enclosed utility bed to work with the hook setup. So on day one they dropped off the utility bed with all of their tools. Then they dropped off their dumpster with a mini excavator in the back. The next day they hauled in some stone with a special dump body (think converted dumpster). Toward the end of the job they brought in a few hundred sheets of plywood on an adapted flatbed.

You loose a little economy with the extra weight from the hydrualics and related components but being able to do the job of 4 trucks with just one certainly makes up for that.

 

[barklee]

That Isuzu is what i had in mind only in a crew cab. My only drawback is the turning radius and manuverability. I have never driven one but it looks bigger than a 550 and would be harder to run around with to pick up supplies. Also, maybe its the "American" in me but the "cool" factor is just not there. Its got no style!!!!
I must say it is a logical choice though being that anything Ford made after the 7.3 diesel is just sad! I can show you a mountain of reciepts for repairs to prove it

 

[KevD815]

Ahh yes, as far as style points go, on a scale of 1 to 10...

...cab overs are definately a negative 2 :usa

In all seriousness, I never really understood cab overs. I can see the benefits of a low center of gravity and a tighter turning radius. But at a glance they look like they lack clearance for a flotation type tire up front and there really isnt anything in front of the driver. They obviously must be safe enough to pass government tests but i would feel a little safer with a few feet of steel in front of me. I'm also curious as to how well a cab over would push a plow. Seems like it might be a little funky. Do they make these is four wheel drive?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone, just tryin to open up some more discussion. How does everyone else feel about cab overs?

 

[capt_met]

i like the cabovers. particularly the larger ones equipped with the cat or duramax engines. for a larger med. duty their benefits outweigh the shortcomings. in my area the tighter turning radius would be a help. they seem to have great visibility as well. the smaller 4 cylinder cabovers are nice as well just don't have the towing capacity i need. with the use of smaller cabovers becoming so common among landscapers in the US a change is slowly happening. i've never seen a tri-axle cabover dump in the heavy duty range. it seems medium duty trucks in general are falling out of favor here.

 

[barklee]

Now there is some style!!!!!!!!!!!!!:notworthy

 

[Orchard Ex]

barklee I mean no offense but - "Style" and "International" are two things I didn't expect in the same post.:bouncegri
I will admit that the 4000 series is much better looking than the 7000 series though.

 

[PSDF350]

Ahh yes, as far as style points go, on a scale of 1 to 10...

...cab overs are definately a negative 2 :usa

In all seriousness, I never really understood cab overs. I can see the benefits of a low center of gravity and a tighter turning radius. But at a glance they look like they lack clearance for a flotation type tire up front and there really isnt anything in front of the driver. They obviously must be safe enough to pass government tests but i would feel a little safer with a few feet of steel in front of me. I'm also curious as to how well a cab over would push a plow. Seems like it might be a little funky. Do they make these is four wheel drive?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone, just tryin to open up some more discussion. How does everyone else feel about cab overs?

Guy that services my plow has a cabover for plowing he loves it. Says it has agreat turning radius and he is looking right over the plow and can see everthing thats going on.

 

[willie59]

Hi ATCOEQUIP, your points are well made and your contributions are welcome in this thread as you put some thought into your responses encouraging me to do the same.

Ahh, your doing a fine job mate.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...given the fact that lots of folks in the U.S. use a V8 truck as a daily driver (partly due to the down sizing of the car fleet) it's only a matter of time before the regulators mandate a reduction in pickup engine size...we're running low on oil guys.

As an interesting aside...as far as I am aware there are no conventional bonneted light duty trucks sold in Australia...everything over a one tonner is cabover.

 

[CEwriter]

Yair...given the fact that lots of folks in the U.S. use a V8 truck as a daily driver (partly due to the down sizing of the car fleet) it's only a matter of time before the regulators mandate a reduction in pickup engine size...we're running low on oil guys.

Already done, Scrub Puller. See this thread on the Obama administration's new pickup regulation.

Question for the Yanks: If diesel routinely cost about $4.60 per gallon at the pump (as it does in Australia, if they were to price diesel in US dollars per gallon), and a gallon of gasoline was relatively the same, would you buy pickup trucks more like what the Aussies are describing?

Question for the Oz: If diesel routinely cost about $.77 per liter at the pump (as it does in the US, if we priced diesel in Australian/liter), and a gallon of gasoline was relatively the same, would you buy trucks more like what the guys in the US are describing?

Larry