Pads and flat work with an excavator

[MG84]

I've been seeing more and more guys using an excavator for pads, flat work, stripping topsoil etc. Usually it's a mini or mid sized excavator and the jobs are your average prep for a garage slab, pole barn pad, boxing out a driveway, nothing huge. These are jobs that traditionally would have been done with a skid steer, track loader or dozer depending on the size. Many of these guys I know have other equipment, often on site.

I tried an experiment with this on a recent small pad I did for a 24x36 shed with my Kubota U35 mini vs Kubota SVL65 CTL (both ~8000lb machines.) I tried both my 24" digging bucket and 36" ditching bucket depending on how hard the digging was. CTL had a 74" long lip tooth bucket, about 3/4yd heaped. I didn't time anything or be real sceintific about it, but unless the digging was very hard (shale,) the CTL seemed to move volumes more dirt in a given amount of time. I feel like a dozer vs larger excavator (similarly sized) would be the same outcome. Do guys just like running an excavator better? What am I missing? I'll be interested to hear anyone's personal experience on one vs the other on the same job.

 

[CM1995]

A CTL is going to be more productive than a similar weight mini in prepping any pad over 20x20 IMO. Mismatching the sizes of CTL or excavator building a pad is too many variables.

Final grading wise I prefer our 305 for backfilling tight radius curbs, dumpster pads, small spaces in between curb and sidewalk and the like. A 279 will run circles around the 305 backfilling long runs of curb.

Large areas that need to be fine graded prior to base placement in a parking lot our D3 shines, the smaller spaces and tight drive thru lanes a 279 shines and tight spots or cutting entrances out the 305 shines.

A formidable match is a 325 excavator and 279 CTL. Those 2 machines are very versatile and can complete a lot of varied and different tasks. However a D3 with GPS will smoke them both combined if final grading.

Each machine has it's place however like my tag line says sometimes you have to "run whatcha brung". If that's a 10K mini to build a 30x30 pad then so be it.

 

[skyking1]

I have figured out how to do all sorts of things with a dozer, but if there is some digging a trench or sloping a difficult spot and I had to bring only one machine, it would be an excavator.

 

[MG84]

For small and detailed work I do find myself using the mini to grade, backfill, etc. but only if its a very small area. Getting a wide smooth edge ditching/grading bucket was a game changer for that sort of work.

Another example I see is building driveways or roads in open areas with an excavator. I personally feel a dozer or loader is a lot more efficient but then again it may boil down to what they are more comfortable with or whats available.

 

[MG84]

I have figured out how to do all sorts of things with a dozer, but if there is some digging a trench or sloping a difficult spot and I had to bring only one machine, it would be an excavator.

That is sometimes the dilemma on small or distant job is only brining one machine. I could see the logic using a mini ex (job size dependent) for that since you can dig, load and doze with one machine. That is what I see guys doing building pads with a mini, dig the dirt on the cut side, throw it in a pile towards the fill side, then spread it with the blade. I guess thats really the same process we used to use building pads with a just a backhoe.

 

[CM1995]

The problem with doing a cut/fill pad with a mini is the time it takes to properly compact the fill side. Most people either don't understand compaction or just don't care to take the time to do it properly. Although a mini does make it much easier to key the cut/fill line in.

For small and detailed work I do find myself using the mini to grade, backfill, etc. but only if its a very small area. Getting a wide smooth edge ditching/grading bucket was a game changer for that sort of work.

We use our 3' smooth edge bucket more than the 24" and 18" tooth buckets. Next mini seriously considering a tilta-rotator. The only concern I have is running a hammer on one. Find ourselves using the small hammer on the 305 more than the big hammer on the 325.

 

[MG84]

The problem with doing a cut/fill pad with a mini is the time it takes to properly compact the fill side. Most people either don't understand compaction or just don't care to take the time to do it properly. Although a mini does make it much easier to key the cut/fill line in.



We use our 3' smooth edge bucket more than the 24" and 18" tooth buckets. Next mini seriously considering a tilta-rotator. The only concern I have is running a hammer on one. Find ourselves using the small hammer on the 305 more than the big hammer on the 325.

How does one go about compacting fill on a pad with a mini, or any excavator for that matter? I’d think the ground pressure would be so low that you’d have to make extremely shallow lifts if it’d even compact anything at all. Or are you talking about using a hoe-pac or sheepsfoot roller attachment?

 

[Jimothy]

Tilt rotator. Jobs these days can be so complicated. Too many rules, no help, timelines 50000 pounds of wood and rebar in the way… yada yada yada. Don’t get me wrong I want the biggest dozer I can fit on every single site but if you can afford a larger excavator with a tilt rotator the amount you can do with that one machine is disgustingly impressive.

 

[skyking1]

How does one go about compacting fill on a pad with a mini, or any excavator for that matter? I’d think the ground pressure would be so low that you’d have to make extremely shallow lifts if it’d even compact anything at all. Or are you talking about using a hoe-pac or sheepsfoot roller attachment?

I have a hoe pack. It takes a while to do it right but it gets it done.
IMO nothing will track it in properly, tracks just don't get it done. The only decent compaction comes from loaded wheels. I like a backhoe with a bucket full of dirt. That front tire does good work. I have rolled little spots with the dump truck.

 

[NepeanGC]

If I'm fine grading a small pad - say 50x50 or less, I'll take my E42 with tiltrotator and 4ft grading bucket any day over a CTL. Generally I'm the one paying for concrete, and with that machine I can get any pad dialed within 1/4", usually in about an hour.

Anything bigger, and I'll take our CX145D. It's got a tiltrotator and 8ft wide grade beam. That'll out grade a D3 as long the material doesn't have to be moved.

Tiltrotators, on any size excavtor really are a game changer.

 

[imjustdave]

A few things... There are 1000's of tools one could - can own.
But a mini, mid size full size can do a lot of things, and so it's common to see on a job site.
I could say WHY would you use dozer over a Road Grader.... Well one is 100k and the other is milllion. or the road is only 500 feet.. dozer works.
I would also say a lot depends on how much money you want to spend... if I could own every tool in the tool box than I would show up with the Exact tool for that job but lots of tools can do a lot, sure it might take little more time but it gets done.
The other aspect not mentioned is Weather and pumping action of driving over an area. I once showed up on a job to dig out a 20X30 maybe 20x20 area 18inch - 2feet deep with a CTL JD 332 biggest JD made at that time for a bump out addition on a home... well by the time I was done it was a soupy mess and barley got out without getting stuck. I think I may have even gone and come back with a min to clean up the mess. The simple movement of driving over it repeatedly pumped up water way below the ground up to the surface. The GC was okish I got paid and maybe the min would have had an issues as well but the reality is I doubt it would have turned into the mess it was. the multiple trips across the same area it what doomed it. Other areas in the yard didn't have an issue it was just the areas that had 30+ trips.
We have a lot of sand - loam VS rock or clay. lots of groundwater in my area and basements are NOT common crawl space is the norm.

 

[imjustdave]

If I'm fine grading a small pad - say 50x50 or less, I'll take my E42 with tiltrotator and 4ft grading bucket any day over a CTL. Generally I'm the one paying for concrete, and with that machine I can get any pad dialed within 1/4", usually in about an hour.

Anything bigger, and I'll take our CX145D. It's got a tiltrotator and 8ft wide grade beam. That'll out grade a D3 as long the material doesn't have to be moved.

Tiltrotators, on any size excavtor really are a game changer.

Which rotator do you run? Do you like it? considering getting one 1-2 man company so looking at it's removing hired hands needs.