30 dirty years
Well-Known Member
Anybody into organic farming I got five acres of farmable wetlands that have not been fertilized or anything in the city that needs a use.
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Organic farming
- Thread starter 30 dirty years
- Start date
Richardjw~
Senior Member
With the current state of the world are you finding over there with you that the organic 'craze' is dying out?
fArMeRkNoWsBeSt
Well-Known Member
I'm not an organic farmer, but I do know a lot about it. If I were you i'd get an extremely extensive soil survey done to see just what nutrients you have. If it is missing any major macronutrients it will cost you more than it is worth to get the soil up to par.
Farmable wetlands? What on earth does that mean? Photos of the area?
Warren
30 dirty years
Well-Known Member
The core of engineers labled it as farmable wet lands , originally wanted to fill the property since it is zoned commercial and the taxas are high but there is a lot of red tape and approved land must be mitigated to do that.
can you get a picture? or can you give me the soil type out of a soil book?
i know in our area when the corps calls something wet, it's wet.
i just dont want to tell you: oh yeah,fire up on a labor intensive crop (organic) and then mother nature takes you out every 2"+ rain.
for some reason i have a mental image of a wally-world water retention pond, which in that case maybe some cotton wood, willows, and cat tails are your best bet.
can you paint a better mental image and then will go from there?
i know in our area when the corps calls something wet, it's wet.
i just dont want to tell you: oh yeah,fire up on a labor intensive crop (organic) and then mother nature takes you out every 2"+ rain.
for some reason i have a mental image of a wally-world water retention pond, which in that case maybe some cotton wood, willows, and cat tails are your best bet.
can you paint a better mental image and then will go from there?
Deere9670
Senior Member
what city? I dont think any farmer around here will mess with 5 acres of wetland unless you paid them to "farm" it and that way you got the tax break. If seen this done before were we would have some ground that the landlord would pay us to plant crops, just to get the tax break.
30 dirty years
Well-Known Member
The land is in the Quad Cities I will get pics It is in the 500 year flood plane and water is about 2 foot below the surface.
pictures are good.
I understand a 500 year flood plain, I guess my worries are if your neighbors are all concrete, higher elevation and your the low spot in the general area. that doesnt bode well for your farming goals.
the soil type is the next issue. can you go here: http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm
punch in IL, your county and try to outline your 5ac and get the soil types your dealing with? this web site i find really helpful in getting information about the general productivity of land.
i hear what deere is saying..... but if your just thinking a big organic garden and marketing your product to a grocery store or farmers market type affair. those 5ac could be good to you.
I understand a 500 year flood plain, I guess my worries are if your neighbors are all concrete, higher elevation and your the low spot in the general area. that doesnt bode well for your farming goals.
the soil type is the next issue. can you go here: http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm
punch in IL, your county and try to outline your 5ac and get the soil types your dealing with? this web site i find really helpful in getting information about the general productivity of land.
i hear what deere is saying..... but if your just thinking a big organic garden and marketing your product to a grocery store or farmers market type affair. those 5ac could be good to you.
30 dirty years
Well-Known Member
I have been a little busy here working, I am still going to get some pics , I don't think there will be time to get the ground approved for organic farming this year but we are still going to plant something. The ground was covered in reed grass / cat tails and I was wondering will the reed grass take over a corn crop ?
to answer your question: yes
corn is a grass, grass weeds are the most competitive to a corn crop. Roundup is your best bet for controlling grass weed species.
systemic, works fast, plant RR resistant corn and you can continue to use it for control.
the plant species help understand what kind of water situation your dealing with. cattails and reed grass dont pop up on high/dry spots!
are you planning to drain this in any way?
if not, most of the major crops of the midwest (corn, beans, wheat) don't really like wet feet. think about farmers fields this year where water sat in the low spots. bad things happen.
corn is a grass, grass weeds are the most competitive to a corn crop. Roundup is your best bet for controlling grass weed species.
systemic, works fast, plant RR resistant corn and you can continue to use it for control.
the plant species help understand what kind of water situation your dealing with. cattails and reed grass dont pop up on high/dry spots!
are you planning to drain this in any way?
if not, most of the major crops of the midwest (corn, beans, wheat) don't really like wet feet. think about farmers fields this year where water sat in the low spots. bad things happen.
Deere9670
Senior Member
30 years- Make sure that you cheak the law on destroying the caitails before you do so. I know that they are a protected plant. If this patch of ground is near the city, or a populated area, you might wanna play by the book to be safe. KMB is right on about the chemicals, and the different crops. My advice would be not to plant corn there your first year farming it, espically this year with the seed and fert costs. Sounds like you dont own any farming equipment, so your best bet is to talk to a local farmer, and see if he wants to work this piece of ground for you. Still waiting to see these pics as well
30 dirty years
Well-Known Member
OCR,
depends on who you talk too! haha, i doubt that Roundup would pass.
but well 2,4-D is a plant growth hormone (auxin) simulator and well that is natural.
i dont know the rules/regs of organics, i know some are strict and some are a crock to rip off the consumer that feels the need to spend $$ for the stuff....
all jokes aside, starting into a set-aside piece of property without ALL the managements tools known to man, makes the hill that much steeper.
i'd think about doing something to get the weeds under control and then lets worry about organic.
depends on who you talk too! haha, i doubt that Roundup would pass.
but well 2,4-D is a plant growth hormone (auxin) simulator and well that is natural.
i dont know the rules/regs of organics, i know some are strict and some are a crock to rip off the consumer that feels the need to spend $$ for the stuff....
all jokes aside, starting into a set-aside piece of property without ALL the managements tools known to man, makes the hill that much steeper.
i'd think about doing something to get the weeds under control and then lets worry about organic.
30,
thanks for the pics. visualizations are good.
i'm a little lost as to how much/frequency/duration of any kind of water might affect this property.
couple random ideas that pop into my head are:
1. could you find an outlet for say fresh market sweet corn? or other seasonal vegetables. this size property is in the range for that type of use. lots of labor, but no need for more equipment than you have
2. looking at that bank of houses on the bluff, could you divide up the property to a group of local gardeners?
3. 5 acres of well tended fruit/nut trees might better tolerate wet feet. will the neighbors leave it alone? are the quad cities too far north for a variety of cold fragile trees? can you have quality product without using pesticides?
some other thoughts/concerns.
-is this some type of protected wetlands. deere pointed this out. calling something wetlands is more or less turning that into a sacred cow.
-how much time/capital are you willing to invest
-5ac, that size of property it is going to be hard to get a commercial farmer interested in, and i think i've heard you say you want to do this
-does it have to be organic?
those are my crazy thoughts.
thanks for the pics. visualizations are good.
i'm a little lost as to how much/frequency/duration of any kind of water might affect this property.
couple random ideas that pop into my head are:
1. could you find an outlet for say fresh market sweet corn? or other seasonal vegetables. this size property is in the range for that type of use. lots of labor, but no need for more equipment than you have
2. looking at that bank of houses on the bluff, could you divide up the property to a group of local gardeners?
3. 5 acres of well tended fruit/nut trees might better tolerate wet feet. will the neighbors leave it alone? are the quad cities too far north for a variety of cold fragile trees? can you have quality product without using pesticides?
some other thoughts/concerns.
-is this some type of protected wetlands. deere pointed this out. calling something wetlands is more or less turning that into a sacred cow.
-how much time/capital are you willing to invest
-5ac, that size of property it is going to be hard to get a commercial farmer interested in, and i think i've heard you say you want to do this
-does it have to be organic?
those are my crazy thoughts.
OCR
Senior Member
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- Montana
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- Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
Organic farming:
I could be wrong, but I think there are some strict certification process necessary even to be classified as "organic".
Even RR corn would probably knock you out of the game... and that's field corn, isn't it? Not much demand for field corn at a farmers market... I would think, anyway... And, five acres of sweet corn would be a tough row(s) to hoe... literally.
We're chemical users... even fertilizer is a chemical... and I don't see much of a way around there use.
30 dirty years, if you could stay away from going "organic"... you could still sell your produce at a farmers market type deal... which in it's self is a good plan.
I could definitely be wrong on some of this too... you have to check the regs.
OCR
From a personal stand point... that is... in my opinion, I think it would be an almost impossible task to keep this in the "organic" category.
I could be wrong, but I think there are some strict certification process necessary even to be classified as "organic".
Even RR corn would probably knock you out of the game... and that's field corn, isn't it? Not much demand for field corn at a farmers market... I would think, anyway... And, five acres of sweet corn would be a tough row(s) to hoe... literally.
I would agree... but if there was any chemical use at all... even Roundup... which you can basically drink (I wouldn't)... it might disqualify your ground for future use as "organic"... but if and for how long, I wouldn't know...
We're chemical users... even fertilizer is a chemical... and I don't see much of a way around there use.
30 dirty years, if you could stay away from going "organic"... you could still sell your produce at a farmers market type deal... which in it's self is a good plan.
I could definitely be wrong on some of this too... you have to check the regs.
OCR
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Deere9670
Senior Member
30 dirty- kmb has got you on the right track as far as either growing some sweet corn or fresh veggies to sell at a local farmstand or somthing with just 5 acres. As for what I saw in the pictures......well it looks like you (or someone) has already chewed up the catails, so I guess you might as well just go the whole 9 yards with that little legal situation........but seeing that many catails makes me wonder how much water that piece of land has held over the wet seasons. To me....just from the pictures, it looks like you got yourself a rice field! If its the tax break that you looking for, then just work it up with that disk, and get some type of seed out there like wheat or soybeans.....etc....
townlineterry
Member
30
You might want to check into setting up a community garden, they are popular in Europe and New England. They are done organically and you should be able to get grant money for it. Nice part is the members do most of the grunt work.
Should be some organizations in your area that will help you. Another palce to get info is Northeast Organic Farmers Association, nofa.org. They are New England based, but the have alot of info and can steer you to the right people in your area.
Terry
You might want to check into setting up a community garden, they are popular in Europe and New England. They are done organically and you should be able to get grant money for it. Nice part is the members do most of the grunt work.
Should be some organizations in your area that will help you. Another palce to get info is Northeast Organic Farmers Association, nofa.org. They are New England based, but the have alot of info and can steer you to the right people in your area.
Terry