old very old michigan 175-a with issues

[sh0rtlife]

so for atleast 15 year ive seen this old beast sitting in almost swamp land and recently my boss stumbled across it..it hadnt ran for atleast 8 years..had been flooded over(only the cab showing) atleast once or twice..we got it running and then paid 400$ for it..its worth that in scrap..but it drove under its own power out of the swamp....and now sits on our land...its my beast to play with

so..its got no 4x..yet the rear line does spin..i dug the bucket into the ground putting the fronts in the air to verify that...if anyones got any ideas that i should look for im all ears its missing the trunion socket scrapers? on one side so im wondering about cv joint but theres no noises going on back there

next..the trans feels slow..after alot of digging on the forum im seeing trans levels mostly...problem is ive got no manual and everything ive seen has been "parts" manuals or "operators" manuals..i want the service manual..honestly if someones got copys or anything that would be GREAT!!!! if not im sure someone can point me in the right direction

next..well she looked funky and it took me a while to figure it out..someone shoehorned in a 6-71 supercharger and all..which ment moving the grill back about 8 inches and raising it..and added a HUGE tank as well

the steering feels..slugish but i think its the cobbling done and the tiny pump on the front of the engine

brakes....what brakes?...someone cobbled on a dodge truck master cyl but i know thats not moving enuf volume for those huge drums let alone the copper brake lines..the vac/hydro canister and pump setup is all missing so going to need some ideas and help here..im not against scavanging from other things to make improvements

are the diffs open? or limited slip of some kind?...cause well ive basicaly got 1 front wheel drive...course im willing to bet..since its one of the few things ive not drained..that theres bound to be water in there.....there was atleast 40+ gal of water retained in everything else

all that said the thing is a BEAST the hydros all push and pull great someone modified it for log loading with forks and jaws but modded the original bucket to slip onto the forks..its got a tag from being sold in utah an old black and yellow california plate(hwy work?) and the serial number seems odd..atleast from the research ive done...17599-j..anyone got details on that?..also the tag says 175-ad or ab its really hard to make out the b/d on the tag....year?

first i want to get it all working propperly..then its cleanup and repaint/semi restore it..i love it..feels like a full size tonka to me..obviously i wont swap out the engine so ill make it look like it was ment to be there..build new engine covers which are missing, build new doors for the cab from scratch and build the front headlight cowl area from scratch(again missing but wasnt that the stock fuel tank?)...ill post some pics up of it later this weekend..to some she is ugly as sin..to me..shes a diamond in the rough...

ive got 40 acres that was slash cut logged and a disater left in its place before we got it..so this old loader has her work cut out for her as soon as she can do it

 

[fast_st]

I helped a bud rehab an old Nelson, before driving that beast too far, I'd get into it deep, see if there is water in the axles and or hydrauic oil. On the nelson we found that the CV joints and planetaries were full of junk and binding up, a good cleaning and rehab the bearings and drives really made the machine work a lot better, plus you'll be able to see if the entire drive is in sound shape. The nelson had the same, air over hydraulic, regular air treadle driving a big single master cyl with an air can. If you have space to work and a hoist to pick off the drums, take the whole bottom end apart, will cost you a few bucks for new seals and lube but well worth it.

Getting the service manual is a good idea, and use anerobic on the planetaries, not RTV, anerobic shims more consistently.

The rehab also included removing a 6cyl Cummins J and swapping in a 4BTA with a fair bit more power

 

[oldseabee]

Is this a straight frame or articulated? Boom arms pivot behind the seat (Series I ) or in front (Series II). The operators manual on the very old Michigans actually contained a lot service manual info. Didn't have a Dedicated service manual. There were shop manuals on components like transmissions, convertors, Axles Etc.
I have some of that stuff but need to know what model and S/N if possible and a picture would be nice.

 

[sh0rtlife]

she is indeed the straight frame rig..seat in front of the arm piviots so ya gotta climb all over everything to get in/out

the only number ive found is on the plate by the seat 17599-j...no dedicated manuals eh..ok that sucks....any component manuals scaned or otherwise would be VERY helpfull

dig the phone number

so much for the name "wheel loader" ...maybe this unit is just to old for that lable....

 

[oldseabee]

First, about the 4WD. there are 2 levers just behind the throttle pedal The left one is for work/travel range, forward is work range, middle is neutral, to the rear is travel range. the lever to the right is for 4WD/2WD, forward is 4WD, to the rear is 2WD, no neutral. Only travel in 2WD to prevent driveline wrap up. 4WD is straight through and will tend to bind up the driveline to the point that either the front or rear tires will drag and scuff, and you can't shift the lever, if that happens the only ways to get the driveline unlocked is to backup or lift the front end with the bucket.
The operators manual does have component repair and test info included. I do not have a parts manual, but I can copy and mail the operators manual, just for the cost of the copies and postage.
Another note: These machines with the boom arms pivoting behind the seat area are a dangerous item. A number of operators lost body parts to the boom. Due to a number of lawsuits, The series II machines moved the pivot up in front of the seat. Best advice is to part it out and get something safer, unless you are just going to restore the machine for historical reasons.

 

[sh0rtlife]

im none to afraid of the locations of stuff.....anyone loosing limbs to that setup imo wasnt paying attention to the equipment..altho im not suprised that changed the series 2 rigs
as for the 4wd let me clarify ....in 4wd dig the bucket into the ground and lift the front tires off the ground..both front a rear line are spinning ..front tires spinning in the air..rears doing nothing even tho the line is spinning....so i know im going to have to tear my way in...luckily were 7+ miles from any pavement lol..i wonder what let go in the rear prior to us getting it

 

[oldseabee]

The diff. in the rear axle is not limited slip, so you could have a broken axle shaft on one side and the diff would just spin the spiders and not the wheel. Each axle shaft has a ujoint in the middle for steering so anything out board on one side broken can be the problem. I'd get a stethascope or a long steel rod and listen all over the axle for what is moving and what is not, then drain the diff and check for metal. Pull the drive shaft off the input and see if you can wiggle the pinion shaft around, it might be broken. then pull the caps off the planetaries and see what they look like.

 

[sh0rtlife]

the input doesnt wiggle that much i did check...id just asume save the old girl and put her back to work its only 40 acres...ill dig into the rear axle and see what i cant find..i LOVE the old iron imo the only way she could be any more fun once fixed would be dual axle steering..but ive only seen that on the mil spec ones

i wonder if anyone has any good shots of the doors for this cab..id like to re-create them...unless someone has them laying around

just curious whats the weakest link in the rear axle anyway?..if i had to guess it would be the u-joints at the steering point..but im basing that off old car tech as thats more of what im used to playing with..even if i am building a 6ton rat wrecker

is the front axle limited slip by chance?

 

[oldseabee]

One of the biggest problems is that the steer stops get worn or banged up and allow the machine to over steer, that will be tough on the Ujoints. first clue is that the tires rub the frame, should be 1 inch clearance at full turn. The u joints have been somewhat of a problem anyway, but the way you are going to use it they should last a long time if they are in good shape now or if they have to be fixed.
Front diff is not limited slip unless someone has put it in later.
Didn't see a photo of the doors, Operators manual shows it without cab.

 

[oldseabee]

Go to: http://www.tractorparts.com/clark.htm and scroll down, there are a couple of 175A machines with cab. Hard to see the doors through the boom arms.

 

[sh0rtlife]

ahh thats where i found them before..thanx...you wouldnt by chance know if the 125 and 175 use the same cab...cause looking thru them it looks like they did.....may have to drive up to idaho and pickup some parts lol..far enuf to be a long drive but close enuf to be worth the drive lol

 

[sh0rtlife]

so...ive played with the trans and sure enuf it was low..now that its full its better but still slipping.......im guessing it needs the clutches? or is there something else i should look at, also where would i go about getting them...still havnt touched the rear on it as its been tooooo bloody cold to consider

 

[oldseabee]

Need to check clutch pressure 1500 RPM with the oil hot should read minimum 140 PSI Test, port on top of control valve. The other possibilty is in the convertor. There is a one way sprag in the convertor that lets the stator free wheel when there is minmum load then should lock up when the machine starts to pull. It is made like a roller bearing but has cams instead of rollers so they slip in one direction and lock up in the other. If the cams or the race get worn it can slip under load and act like the transmission is slipping. If the slippage is in all gears could be the sprag if just in one gear or forward or reverse probably in the clutch pack for that gear. Clark parts are now handled by http://www.minnpar.com/
You have to register but it is free. then put in part numbers. When you get your parts manual you can see what is involved.

 

[sh0rtlife]

ok well ive gotten 90% of the rig running great..a couple litle leaks to sort out and then get lights re-wired and get the brakes finished up

but now i have a HUGE problem..well sorta....the rig has always been front wheel drive only and i assumed it had a busted rear axle..i got around to pullingthe planitary covers on the rear..and well...there is NO AXLE on the driver side..the passenger side unit is fine..and with the front end off the ground and in gear wheels spinning you can look down the empty axle tube and watch the diff spin

so...anyone got any phone numbers/links for me a replacement steering axle?....i also need the ball scrapers?(they too were missing when we got it but i have the thin plates that go over them) for the same side.. from the planitarys to the diff the whole shaft.....ugh

ive got a call into the wrecker/shop up in idaho.....but they dont think they have any(awaiting a return call).....idealy im looking used unless a new one is well under 1k

this is an early 175a

is this thing a full open diff btw?..with it in gear at idle with the front end in the air...you can walk up to it and with a single hand stop either tire