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New guy

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
991
Location
ID
I run a small crane service in Idaho, and have for 18 years now. Another old construction hand here, I got my carpenters journeyman union card about 40 years ago, and then gradually got out of the union and went into business for myself. I kept busy for a lot of years, but somehow also got older, and in order to make things easier I bought a JLG 10 ton boom truck with 55' of stick and no jib. I had absolutely no clue what I was doing, and am equally proud, and ashamed, over the fact that I was totally self trained! For the type of work I do here in Idaho, to this day the only requirement seems to be having the keys to the boom truck, if you have the keys and the truck, you're good to go. All I have for paperwork is a cert showing I passed a OSHA training course for boom trucks.

Anyway, after that huge (at first) 55' stick started looking small, I saw a rental JLG exactly like mine, with a jib, so I copied it exactly and with the help of a friend with a water jet cutter, made my own jib, amazing, I know that now, thinking back, but that's what happened! So, with that 55' boom and 17' jib, I was in hog heaven, and then an amazing thing happened, another carpenter building down the street came over and asked if I had time to set HIS trusses after I was done on my own project. "Why not", I thought, and then one thing lead to another. So I started doing more and more "crane" work.

I had one little setback, when I was for the first time running a 4 part line up at the local ski area that their mechanic had rigged up for me. We were attempting to hoist the big reel of cable for the lift, and with no load computer and just an estimated weight (what we failed to take into account was the weight of the shipping frame the cable came on, not realizing they were still hooked together for shipping, this increased the weight and made a 95% capacity lift 125% or so) I just winched up until "a loud noise happened." The loud noise was the boom bracket where it connected to the boom cylinder busting off. Amazingly again, and again thanks to my buddy with the water jet cutter and his expert welding (every welding cert in the book, for sure not a hack welder like me) after we determined that the only damage seemed to be the attach bracket itself, we made a new one and welded it back on, and two days later I was back in business! That little JLG went on to pay for itself 3 times over, while working faultlessly after those few little hiccups. Yes, I'm being sarcastic here.....luckily, I didn't know enough to know you couldn't do what I did, we just used our common farm boy/carpenter sense and put it back together, wow. I did wise up a bit after that fiasco, and bought a Crane Smart wireless load cell. It ended my breaking things.

I quickly realized that running this machine paid a heck of a lot better and was easier then bending nails, so I started to get a bit more serious about things. I traded in the JLG for a monster boom truck, a whole 17 ton capacity with 70' of boom and 40' of jib, more stick then I would ever need, right?! I ran that used Terex 3470 for a few years, until it paid for itself 3 times over, even after buying a wireless remote unit for it, and then sold it for I had in it. Then I bought a brand spanking new one just like it from Guiffre Brothers, paying 115 K for it, owning it free and clear, the usual few years later it had paid for itself several times, and then I sold it for only 30K less then what I had in it.

I happened to see a rider type boom truck going down the interstate one day, it was a Manitex 101S from a rental outfit in SLC, and the light went on...... I could back into a job site and get the crane closer to the work, I could swing with the load while sitting down, no more neck craning while standing up!! After some research, I bought a used one in Florida and drove it back to Idaho over the weekend, working it by 8 Monday morning, don't tell the DOT that please. Now I really had a crane so big and capable, I'd never need a bigger one! That crane made me once again many times what it cost in just a few years, meanwhile I was gradually getting up to speed about what I wanted next, and that was a heated cab for it. So, I built my own, for around $3400.00 including the heater. Life was good.....but the 101S had some issues, coming out of a rental yard it looked pretty with that new paint job, but it had a lot of hard hours on it, so I sold it to the same buddy who had bought my first Terex 3470 (who now has his own small boom truck business in Arizona, running three different rigs) and got what is my current rig, what I'm sure is so big and powerful I will NEVER need to trade up, right?

It's a National 13110A (yea baby, now we're talking) 30 ton rider with 110' of boom and 44' of two part jib, clean, one owner, bought new by a metal fab family owned business in Wisconsin and only operated by the adult son. Gently used, with a factory built deluxe cab, and complete with plenty of rigging boxes and dunnage racks. I paid 215K for it, mounted on a Mack Granite chassis with 425 hp, and best of all NO DEF as it's a 2007! That was going on two years ago, and it has been everything I had hoped for, especially since I added the available 1400 lb. counter weight to the rear of the turret (that makes it a real crane, right?) Same structural capacity of course, but what a difference in stability, at least from my operator seat when getting out there a ways, that counter weight is a great idea! That's it for now, I'll post a few pics and talk about the work I do with this CRANE in a few days.
 

Tradesman

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,075
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Contractor
Welcome aboard. There are great bunch of very knowledgeable guys on this sight I'm sure you will enjoy.
I'm a journeyman carpenter as well but as I get older, riding a picky up thing is way easier on the bones
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
Welcome to the site. Sounds like my story except I tore lots more stuff up. I did the same thing with a 25 T boom truck..4 part line, too heavy a lift. Except broke the boom in half. That cost 10,000!
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,348
Location
sw missouri
Welcome natman, pictures are always welcome. National makes the cadillac of boom trucks. I like their pilot hydraulic controls, have never run one with the electric over hydraulic controls. That 110' main is really nice.

That big mack truck with all those ponies would make it really nice for road travel.

That said- you can call it a crane if you want to- its still a boom truck:D

(they both just pick stuff up and set it down, but I've just got to pull your chain a little)
 

Tugger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
105
Location
British Columbia
Welcome.I sure appreciate your story,must be abunch of us self taught operators out there.At this stage of life it seems a lot better to be in the seat,sit and watch it happen ,maybe hand out a bit of friendly advice from time to time.
 

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
991
Location
ID
The unusual thing about my rig is the stainless steel used in it's construction. The metal fab company I bought it from, did a lot of work in dairy and food processing plants. While there I got a quick tour of their shop, that alone told me a lot about the National as the shop was super clean and filled with state of the art equipment. With their capability, they decided to buy the crane separate, buy the truck separate, and stick them together. Then they had it load tested and certified by their National dealer. Rather then put a stock flat bed over the torsion box, they built TO it, the result being a lower bed height and more room under the boom when walking up there. This was all approved by the National dealer in advance. The material they used for the bed frame, along with the dunnage/pad racks, and the bed side rails along with the tie down rails on the side, is all heavy stainless steel. Probably because they had it laying around! It stays looking good, no more scratched paint, no paint!

My Manitex was on a Sterling chassis, and it was pretty much junk. I didn't realize at the time what I was getting with the Mack, kind of like a guy buying a motorcycle for the first time, and getting a Harley. And then finding out he just joined a club of other Harley owners. The rig gets noticed by other Mack drivers is my point, and so far I really like it. For the first time I have full locking diff's, and a real Jake brake, two speed no less, super important with the terrain I drive on. It gets up the hills a lot better then the lighter Manitex rig, and gets down them faster also thanks to that Jake.
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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Just learning the pic protocol here, let's see if this works.

My rig had a big gap between the back of the truck cab and the hydraulic tank, about 18" of wasted real estate. I noticed this right about the same time I was getting into electric assisted bikes. The next thing I knew I had a little fat tired hub drive bike that does around 30 mph, in a custom built aluminum box so it blends right in with the rigging boxes. It's an official part of the business (write off able) as I use it as a crane dingy for when lunch happens (after I was told I'd be done by 10) and I'm sitting there with just the crane for transport, no more! Depending on the job, I also have been known to offer to leave the crane onsite for the night and I'll ride off on the bike back to the yard, saving my customers crane travel time. They love this....goes without saying. My tire shop is close enough for me to easily ride back to when needed, which is more then I'd like. In addition to the bike, always carried, I have a RAV4 Toyota with a tow bar, for when I know in advance I'll need transport. Sometimes, I'll charge 10 or 20 bucks for my gas money for that, it still beats me charging travel time for the crane, so my customers really appreciate it.


 
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Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
Messages
991
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ID
OK.....I see the link to my pic, but not the pic itself. I'll try it a different way next time, the way I did it above works for several other forums I'm on, gets the picture itself onscreen, not just a link.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Great to have another crane guy. Um boom truck guy. :).

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...-please-answer-an-age-old-question&highlight=

All in good fun. We've been looking at some options on replacing our t230 and it may well end up being a national nbt45.

It took me awhile to learn to post pics on here due to the fact that I access this site with my phone. It would only pull up the mobile site and that version of the site does not have the upload option that the full site has. If I scrolled all the way I could choose the full site. If your accessing the full site i.e. Not on a smart phone disregard this.

Here's how.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?21903-How-to-add-pics-to-forum-posts

Welcome to the forum. Definitely a lot of top shelf guys here.
 

Natman

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Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
991
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bike3 002.jpg


Thanks for that link to how to post pictures Knepptune, and for how to know when to call a crane, a crane, and a boom truck a boom truck!

As a long time pilot, who came up through flying hang gliders, then ultralights, and for the last 30 years light aircraft, it reminds me of a guy who flies 747's taking exception with a guy calling his ultralight, "an airplane." For sure, us guys with the larger boom trucks, who sit down and swing with the load, and maybe even have a counterweight, like to think of ourselves as crane operators, it just sounds cooler and more impressive then boom truck operators! I'll call my rig a boom truck (or maybe like just now, a "rig") while posting here, elsewhere, when you guys can't hear, it's a crane ha ha.

Speaking of flying, it seems like an unlikely percentage of other BOOM TRUCK operators I know, are pilots, any other pilot/operators here notice that? I like to joke, that after spending all week in a narrow cab, just wide enough for one person, and moving levers around, it's fun to do something completely different and get in another thing just wide enough for one person (tandem seating, like a Super Cub) and move levers around. I have some good examples as how to use an airplane in the hoisting business, been doing it for years with good results.

Anyway, this pic shows the box behind the cab that holds the boom truck dingy, and also the trucks stainless side rails, the under bed framing is also all stainless! The removable brake formed aluminum sideboards came off my old rig, I had made them up for the Manitex 101. To my surprise, they pretty much dropped right into place on the National, there must be some standard sizing on the spacing of the stake bed pockets, either that or I lucked out. It has 4 rigging boxes like the two shown on this side. I have a surplus of storage and is that ever nice, and all of it easy to get at. That's important for a one man operation. Plus I have the pickup truck type tool box up top, so even more storage. I made that cover for the cab windshield to keep the summertime bugs off when driving to a job, I have to put up with that enough with the airplane, no need to deal with them on the boom truck when I can avoid the issue, plus I guess it protects against other road debris. Almost as important, it impresses my customers, makes it look like a give a hoot, in my locale I'm the only operation that does this. In addition I'm the only one who keeps the rig inside a building of any kind, and that building is heated (radiant floor, solar powered). Now, some think that means I'm making too much money, most think that means I have it together and take good care of the equipment. Funny how being successful in something can have a downside, I don't worry about it though, even though one time I had a disparaging remark about the rigs "chrome wheels, guess that's why the bill is so high"! I guess that means I could lower my hourly rate if I went back to steel wheels?

The rig has 4 racks for my dunnage, 2 shown on this side (what I call my pads anyway), exactly like I had my Manitex setup. Those racks are stainless and came with the truck, along with the tool boxes, I didn't change a thing just pretty much moved in, unlike the other rigs I bought that I had to set up to my satisfaction. This one was exactly how I would have done it, pretty amazing. I use 11 7/8" LVL (heavy laminated plywood material they use for headers in framing nowadays, they are very strong and as important predictable in their strength, being laminated, no knot weak points anyway like in timbers) for pads, 36" long, I get them for free. I have my good carpenter customers save them for me, they are too short for headers so would get tossed anyway. Due to the slopes I constantly have to deal with, I need a lot of them, along with some 4" x 6" oak timbers (that came with the rig) I can get level on some pretty steep set ups. I've had the front tires 3' in the air, what ever it takes, it's just a fact of life here for a small time hoisting operation. No prepared level sites for the crane, heck I'm lucky if they left room for the truck width, much less the outrigger spread! I do have charts for mid and in all the way (but down of course) outriggers, and from time to time have to set up asymmetrically. Like setting a hot tub last week in a drive way, I short jacked the opposite side I was working on due to lack of setup room. If I forget and swing to that side, it's my own fault, I don't forget. One trick I use is too set my ladder up against the truck bed in such a way that if I swing that direction I'll knock it over, never have. I avoid setups like that like the plague, but like the sloped sites, it's a fact of life here. Not as bad as it sounds maybe as there is no reason to swing the short jacked direction anyway, the work is towards the full out side. The bike is ready to ride in less then a minute, and even folds in half so I can throw it in a car trunk. I modified the e motor system for more power, it does around 30 mph, without pedaling. Riding at 15 or 20 mph, it has a minimum 10 mile range, further when you pedal a bit. I have another folding mountain e bike for the airplane. 12-10-15 008.jpg12-10-15 007.jpg
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
We're just yanking your chain on that boom truck vs crane issue. I think the guys that took real issue with haven't been on here for a while. The manufacturers are pushing the issue and definitely blurring the line on what is a boom truck or crane anymore.

That little bike sure looks handy as a shirt pocket. I showed my brother that and he was looking for a place to put one on that t230.

Funny you mention flying. My dad is plum ate up with airplanes. He has a little tri-pacer. I think I saw on here somewhere that td25c also has a plane. He'll probably let me know if I'm wrong.

I'd like to build a kit plane just so that I don't have to deal with the regulations of a REAL plane. Kinda crazy that you can put one together in your back yard and fly it around but to buy one and fly it you have to wade through a mile of red tape.
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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My glamour shot of my rig, used on my business cards, taken right before sunset on the road behind my home. I don't keep it up at my place, but down in town, where the work is. It's pretty compact, but not as good as my old 22101S Manitex "off road", it has a bit of tail over hang the Manitex didn't have. If I was just setting residential trusses, I would have stayed with the 101. But the best thing about getting the bigger National is it allows me to set LESS trusses and do more other other the 101 couldn't. Is it just me, or is setting trusses about the worst boom truck or crane work there is? It pays the bills, and when I started was about 99% of my business, but it's hard on the equipment. Though they don't weigh anything, it sure is cycling everything about as fast as you can go. Like driving a 1 ton AWD flatbed truck down to the store to get a loaf of bread, it wears the equipment out about the same,Pat 002.jpgView attachment 163087 it bugs me to pick 100 lb trusses and put them 50' away, any little boom truck can do that. But, I'm doing it tomorrow!
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,348
Location
sw missouri
Nice looking truck. The rear overhang can get you in trouble in a steep spot. I also like having lots of storage, and cribbing racks. And having everything in its place.

I actually don't mind setting trusses. I usually do them with one of my 25 ton Groves- probably use jib on 1/2 of the jobs (106' boom). I guess I think you can just get into a rhythm and bam, bam, bam. It's one of the places the old grove's really shine, because they can handle cycle work day in- day out, you will wear out before it does. Bigger winches, bigger bearings, bigger pins, bigger cable, no boom deflection. But they are slow down the road, ride rough, and have short powered main (80').

Where your boom truck is really nice is a job like the last picture I posted. HVAC unit at 80'. I had to get set up, make sure I had room to swing jib, between the building, the tree, and the generator. Swing jib. Set unit. Pull jib back out. I spent more time putting jib in and out, than actually setting the unit. Then again, I charge by the hour :D.

I do envy your ride and road speed also. Camelback or air ride?
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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It has some kind of air ride thingies for the rear of the cab, and the only reason I know that is one was leaking, the fitting going to it anyway. I'm not sure what a Camelback is?

This came with a real nice rear custom built all stainless bumper, fine for running around Wisconsin I guess, but I tore it half off the first month. So I checked with the staties and the Port Pukes (I have a Port very close by, and they cut me no slack for being a local, i got called in once for my mudflaps being 2" too high) before I built a new rear bumper. It's better suited to Idaho, but still this won't go the places the Manitex did, but that's cool, I am getting picky in my old age anyway!

I loath messing with a jib, I did it a lot with my other rigs, and that's why I really like the 110' of main stick. I don't even carry mine most of the time. HVAC work is gravy for sure, I charge a 2.5 or 3 hour minimum, and most times I'm in and out in less then an hour. I have so much storage I have room left over, handy when driving by the grocery store on the way back from a job. I don't have to worry about remembering where I parked either, "there it is!" I do try and be discreet when loading the beer though, and it for sure doesn't go in the cab.
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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Seeing Tradesman's post about lifting his mini excavator, I remembered this picture. That's my old Manitex, (and it's homemade cab, it worked pretty good and of course had a heater) and my Toyota Yaris. I made up some brackets that attached to the lug bolts, and the idea was to drive it back to Wisconsin when I bought the National, load it up and drive home. I hate flying commercial, and will do about anything to avoid it.Turns out that with the 2 man basket that came with it, and it's test weight, and the jib installed, I'd have been out of room and too heavy. But at least I got this picture.bag 029.jpg
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Speaking of flying, it seems like an unlikely percentage of other BOOM TRUCK operators I know, are pilots, any other pilot/operators here notice that? I like to joke, that after spending all week in a narrow cab, just wide enough for one person, and moving levers around, it's fun to do something completely different and get in another thing just wide enough for one person (tandem seating, like a Super Cub) and move levers around. I have some good examples as how to use an airplane in the hoisting business, been doing it for years with good results.

I think you are on to something , noticed the same thing as well about crane operators & aircraft .

Don't know what the connection is for sure but there has to be one . I have a small " Fisher 404 " kit plane .

And oddly enough one of the men that instructed me on flying was also a crane operator .

Coincidence ???? I think not .:)

Flying planes & runnin cranes . Like an old " Sky King " episode , check out the boom truck at 2:25 . :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0KEblrgf0g

Very nice looking rig Natman & great story !
 
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td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Funny you mention flying. My dad is plum ate up with airplanes. He has a little tri-pacer. I think I saw on here somewhere that td25c also has a plane. He'll probably let me know if I'm wrong.

I'd like to build a kit plane just so that I don't have to deal with the regulations of a REAL plane. Kinda crazy that you can put one together in your back yard and fly it around but to buy one and fly it you have to wade through a mile of red tape.

You would really enjoy it Knepp !

Kit plane or ultra light air craft are allot of fun .
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,348
Location
sw missouri
natman- camelback is a spring type suspension, unique to mack's. Most spring set up's the spring looks like a U. The camelback's go the other direction, they look like the hump of a camel. Camelbacks are super tough off road suspensions, you often see them on heavy dumps, logging trucks, crane trucks, cement trucks etc.

Typical hendrickson spring over walking beam (another tough old suspension)

hedrickson spring walking beam.jpg


Camelback mack

camelback.jpg

Of course neither one of these suspensions ride real great, neither will they sway around cornering hard with a top heavy load (like a boom truck).
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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I had to chain the National up today, for the first time since I owned it, and I just realized while crawling around underneath, I failed to notice what type suspension it has. Next time. I had to back up a steep home site road, on hard packed snow and ice, and just to justify the time spent putting the chains on, I tried it first without them. Then it was perfectly clear to the carpenters that they were either going home early, or, if I carried chains and they helped put them on, we could get the job done. Like most I'm guessing, I use the out riggers to lift the rear end up, still a PITA though. A good crew, first time I worked with them, we parted friends. They usually use a guy with a 14 ton beater Manitex boom truck, one guy who used to work in the oil fields, appreciated the difference and the capability of my rig.
 
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