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new Deere controls?

roadrunner

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Saskatchewan, Canada
Remember that John Deere is still here after 171 years:D



You kidding....right?:lmao

No I am not kidding about the Volvo's.How can anyone compare Cat and Deere to Volvo until you have run all three?Cat and Deere does not have as much power,torque,frame size,component size(cylinders-axles-tandems),cab size(I sure like taking my lunch kit with me in the cab-Volvo even makes a special spot that hold your lunch kit plus when you buy new they give you that free!!!)
Sure don't see Deere or especially CAT doing that!(CAT has a special fee to use their products like their hats and jackets ,nothing free from them!)
Also when cutting dirt or any application related to grading you just cannot move the same amount of material that a Volvo can.(Equivalent sized machines.)
Why is it that Cat and Deere are just finally making changes to their Cabs now?Cat has not changed hardly anything at all for several years along with Deere>They sure were not listening to the operators were they!The thing I hear from any operator is why no one can make a bigger cab with more room!Glad to see Deere improving theirs but why did Cat make theirs even smaller than the H series?So how can one say that CAT thinks about building a machine with operator in mind?( oh I guess you can see better now with their new angled glass cab- to the sides only!)
So when I read all this talk about how good Cat is in their graders I know they have not run or given Volvo a chance.
Let me clarify that I like Deere loaders,faller bunchers,excavators,skidders, and CAT loaders,scrapers, and dozers.
Hope this shows that I am not kidding all the time around here just most of the time!!:wink2
 

farm_boy

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The sunflower state
roadrunner....I'm not arguing that there are some nice features of the Volvo (and Cat) grader. If you look at the fact and figures, Volvo is a clear #3 in the motorgrader market behind Cat (#1) and Deere (#2). It appears you have had good experience with the Volvo machine. For me personally I have operated all three brands (not an M yet) and when it comes to working a grader on a construction jobsite that you have to make direction changes the last machine I would take is the Volvo. Again I can't speak to the M Cat, but the Deere transmission is truly untouchable for shifting smoothness. No hitting the clutch/inching pedal to feather out the direction change needed. Try doing that in a Volvo without spilling your coffee all over the place!

In regards to cab size, if you are basing your comments on the C-series you should really take a look at the D and G Series. Lots more room and there IS a place for your lunch cooler. In regards to getting a free lunch box with a new machine, 99.9% sure that is the dealer doing that and not the manufacturer. Free hats, belt buckles jackets etc are all on the dealer and is a totally seperate issue from the merits of the equipment itself. In my mind that stuff is pretty minor and doesn't even come into the picture of the purchasing decision for me. Of course that is just me.....;)
 

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MKTEF

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Ehhh, i bet u havent tried direction changes in the new Volvos...I don't spill any coffee at all.(11-6 transm)
Inching is for starting and stopping, don't need it the rest of the day...
I heard that it is prodused apr 7500 graders a year, apr 3750(50%) Cat, 1750 Volvo(25%) and the others compete about the rest.
And thats world production.
And as Deere is a US marked product, i don't think your numbers apply to the world marked...
Never seen a newer Deere in Europe, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan....(seen real old ones in Europe):)
 

Northart

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Talkeetna, Alaska
# Graders Built ?

Hello MKTEF,

I just was looking at some serial number books the other nite, for Cat graders.

Now that you brought it up, I'll run some numbers that I came up with.

Caterpillar built the Model 12 tandem drive,stiff frame from 1938 to 1968 . They built 54,000 machines as indicated by Serial Numbers.

I see I skipped a time period here of '69-'73. 2 different books. Hhmmn !

Caterpillar built the 12G from 1974-1994 producing 16,000 + machines.

These are just some quick rough numbers, going by serial numbers. Not accurately tabulating , nor checking to see if all numbers were consecutive. This is US Built graders.

Maybe someone else has some more accurate data. Interesting the same.

Hello Geno795,

The Cat H Series graders are still (Presently)out in the field working . :) Same with the Cat G Series graders. And I suspect they will be(Future) for another 20 years.

When they get wore out they just rebuild them over and over. Just like the dozers. These are not throw away machines, like other brands, that are junked.

Eventually the M series will become dominate in the field as time goes by. I might even get to run one, if I stay working past my prime . LOL :) No 70 and 80 year old operators work full time, that I know of.

But on another note, just wonder how long the older generation equipment will be able to work due to the Emmissions laws. Hhmmn !

Maybe it will be all exported to 3rd world nations with less stringent laws.
 

MKTEF

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Interresting numbers.
To me it looks like the 12G has 16 000 in 20 years; apr 800 pr year.
The modell 12 is 54 000 in 30 years; 1800 pr year.
And in that time Cat was the major produser...
I don't know if they had any factorys produsing graders other places?

And you are right about the H-modells, they are still in production.
140H and the rest is in production in China and South America? if i am not wrong.
Cat has desided to produse them for the tier II market.(Africa, China, Asia, South America)

I beliewe the G's will be exported to Africa and other "poor" countries when they get traded in by us who demand the best...
Thats what i see in Afghanistan, but there the marked is filled with japanese brands. Very rare to see a Cat, but huge numbers of Komatsu graders.(old ones):)
The same was in Iraq, nearly no Cat and others but a lot of Kawasaki and Komatsu.
Kuwait by the way was filled with yellow iron...
 
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MKTEF

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I spent 5 min here:
http://www.ironrecord.com/

I think my numbers on production is not so far from the truth...

4x 14M in 2005, 8X in 2006.
5x 160M in 2004, 31x 2005, 10X 2006, 2007?.
16x 140M in 2006, 2007?
7x 12M 2006, 2007?
7x 120M in 2005, 6x in 2006, 2007?

Get some facts out of that site....
 
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MKTEF

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For 2006 i found:
Apr 4470 H modells and 55-60 M's prodused by Cat in US and Brazil.
 

roadrunner

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Saskatchewan, Canada
roadrunner....I'm not arguing that there are some nice features of the Volvo (and Cat) grader. If you look at the fact and figures, Volvo is a clear #3 in the motorgrader market behind Cat (#1) and Deere (#2). It appears you have had good experience with the Volvo machine. For me personally I have operated all three brands (not an M yet) and when it comes to working a grader on a construction jobsite that you have to make direction changes the last machine I would take is the Volvo. Again I can't speak to the M Cat, but the Deere transmission is truly untouchable for shifting smoothness. No hitting the clutch/inching pedal to feather out the direction change needed. Try doing that in a Volvo without spilling your coffee all over the place!

In regards to cab size, if you are basing your comments on the C-series you should really take a look at the D and G Series. Lots more room and there IS a place for your lunch cooler. In regards to getting a free lunch box with a new machine, 99.9% sure that is the dealer doing that and not the manufacturer. Free hats, belt buckles jackets etc are all on the dealer and is a totally seperate issue from the merits of the equipment itself. In my mind that stuff is pretty minor and doesn't even come into the picture of the purchasing decision for me. Of course that is just me.....;)


You mean the Volvo 11/6 trans. was jerky?Mine sure isn't!
Yes the deere trans. is very smooth also but why do they still have that shift pattern/rap around style shifter --Very annoying!Volvo is just straight back and forth--Very simple!!
Yes I have run the D series Deere machine and from your picture you posted of your machine that sure is a small lunchkit.(rammed down the operators view of the window.)
Where do you CAT M operators put your lunchkits?::confused:

Regarding free Hats, Lunchkits,Thermos,Jackets that does mean alot to me when purchasing machines. Because it goes to show you, that your dealer(that you just paid a quarter million or so to actually gives a xxxx about you and will be there for you with service!!

What did you like about the Volvo machine?Anything in peticular?:beatsme
 
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Geno795

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Illinois
Volvo trans is a Deere/Funk unit made in Kansas. It is smooth and the shift pattern is nice in my opinion, only makes sense to me, BUT, the old Cat operators won't touch anything they aren't used to. Geno
 

Deas Plant

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Grader production.

Hi, Folks.
I just had a look at the Ironrecord site that MKTEF posted and I can see a few holes in the listings for Cat 12 graders alone without looking at any other models. I didn't see any listings for Cat 12 9K, 8T, S8T, 94C or 70D models.

The 9K's were produced during WW2 and maybe a little later, were U.S. built (to the best of my knowledge) and the only one I operated was ex U.S. Army Engineers.

I think the 8T replaced the 9K and was made in the U.S.. The S8T was the Australian-built version of the 8T, built under license DownUnder by Steelweld. I only got to run one of each.

I think the 94C was the first Australian-built grader from Cat's plant in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia but I open to correction on this and I only got to run one of them too. All of the above were pre 'E' series. I think the 94C was the 'C' series.

The next model that I know of to come from the Australian plant was the 21F, followed by the 17K, both of which are listed on Ironrecord. However, I don't recollect seeing any mention of the 70D series which I understand was the U.S. built version of the Australian-built 17K. I have had U.S. people tell me that there was no such thing as a 17K series Cat 12 grader 'cos they never got to see them. They tend to insist that the 70D followed the 21F. Different countries, different series designations.

I haven't run anything later than a G series Cat, 12G, 140G, 14G and 16G and I liked all of them. I have run a JD670B and thought it wasn't bad but didn't think it was all that good either, especially with that idiotic bass-ackwards trans control.

I have run a 'Kummagutsa' GD825 and I liked it too, particularly the manoeverability - it would turn inside the Cat 14G working on the same site - and the fact that you sit on the back end and the front articulates. It also had a fair amount of grunt and could put it on the ground, especially when the diff locks were working. I think it would have out-worked a Cat 16G but it was around 2 tons heavier too, as many 'Kummagutsa' 'equivalent' models are.

I've run a few Mitsubishi graders, an MG100, an MG400 and an MG330, and I wouldn't give you 2 paltry pinches of pickled possum poo for them. I'd almost rather be on an Fiat-Allis 65B grader. Almost. LOL.

I've never run an H series Cat and I'll be surprised if I ever get my grubby lunch-hoooks on an M series, much as I would like to. However, I have run the double joystick Cat wheel loaders and liked them and didn't have any trouble getting used to them. Having said that, I also admit that there are a few more gadgets and gizmos on the M series joysticks.

Cab size? I don't know 'cos I haven't been in any of the later ones, Volvo included. BUT, if you want to talk cab size, I'd back the O&K G350 against all of your fancy modern toys. There was heaps of room in that cab for my lunchbox - and it was a bit bigger than the lunchbox(?) in the photo above - and for my 22 year-old son too. But then it WAS a 42-ton machine too.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur but I'm with Northart on the subject of operator health with the new generation of minimal effort controls. How many companies are going to set up gymns on site so their operators can get a bit of decent exercise before they go home to their totally electronic-ised, effort-free accomodation. I suspect that unless we make some moves to compensate for it, the fact that we no longer hunt sabre-toothed tigers or the like may be the downfall of the human race. How many of you younger operators would take on a 2U D8 or a D9D for an hour, let alone for a day or day in and day out for 20 years? How many of you would take on a 'knuckle-buster' Cat 12 grader for an hour, let alone day in and day out for 20 years?

It is for the above scenario, as well as for their bravery and dedication, that I take my hat off to the folks in our various armed forces, especially the ones who might find themselves at the 'sharp end'. They DO put in the effort, as well as putting their lives on the line.

'Nuff said. (Well-trained little soapbox puts itself back in its corner until next time.)
 

roadrunner

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Volvo trans is a Deere/Funk unit made in Kansas. It is smooth and the shift pattern is nice in my opinion, only makes sense to me, BUT, the old Cat operators won't touch anything they aren't used to. Geno

Hey Geno, is the new G series Volvo trans. really a Deere/Funk?I heard that it was used in VOLVO rock trucks for years.I do not know for sure but can you clarify this for me?
I hear yah on the "old" Cat operators issue!!Sometimes it is nice to try out other things during a lifetime not just stuck in the same old rut!!:eek:
 

Geno795

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Illinois
Roadrunner,
I looked around on the internet and could NOT verify my information. The reason I said that was a local contractor who has always used Cat 14 size graders tried the 14M and couldn't make them work so they tried a G990 Volvo machine, and that was what they said. There are no other Volvo around the Peoria area, so I will apologize for my comment and take it back until someone can prove it to be true. I am not sure if they bought the G990 but I think they did. That is what I get for repeating what an operator told me!! I did run one at a Deere function in Phoenix and do know they shift smooth. Sorry for not checking the facts before I put it in writing. Geno
 

roadrunner

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Saskatchewan, Canada
Roadrunner,
I looked around on the internet and could NOT verify my information. The reason I said that was a local contractor who has always used Cat 14 size graders tried the 14M and couldn't make them work so they tried a G990 Volvo machine, and that was what they said. There are no other Volvo around the Peoria area, so I will apologize for my comment and take it back until someone can prove it to be true. I am not sure if they bought the G990 but I think they did. That is what I get for repeating what an operator told me!! I did run one at a Deere function in Phoenix and do know they shift smooth. Sorry for not checking the facts before I put it in writing. Geno


No worries Geno I do not know for sure either just know that both machines are very smooth shifting!!
 

Northart

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Sly Humor ?

Hello Roadrunner,

Aha, at last someone appreciates my humor ! Slipped it past the dozing ??? Aha !

Just a play on words for the rest of the , less than current newsreaders. :)

Just humor folks !
 

Northart

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Geno 795 ?

So is JD trying to capture the crumbs of the disaffected and forlorn market users ? LOL :) With a ressurrected Cat 14H clone ? LOL :)

Hhmmn , I only thought animal husbandry attempted cloning ??? LOL :falldownlaugh
 

MKTEF

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The Volvo transmission is built on the old Champion construction.
Has been upgraded and strengthened because they have put more/bigger clutches and stuff inside.(Has been longer)
Clutches inside comes from the L220/330 transmissions.
And a new electronic brain controlling everything. Shifting was improved even more after the last software upgrade.
U could feel the shift when it changed main axle, but not any moore.
 

MKTEF

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And regarding the Truck transmission:
The ADT's and the Volvo trucks share the same transmission.
That transmission was made for the adt's but was in the beginning of the 90's redesigned/tested and later sold in Volvo trucks.
We had some test trucks running at a construction site where i was working.
 

Geno795

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Northart,
Think maybe nobody else but the GOOD OL' BOYS know how to grade? Maybe all the manufacturers are figuring out the controls don't make the operator good? Kind of like a dress making the wife's butt look big, it is either BIG or it isn't. You can either see grade or you can't, no matter what you run. I do appreciate your humor, by the way. Geno
 
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