Need some CAT help/advice

[srl28]

Been a long time lurker on the site and could have sworn that I had signed up years back but it turns out I didn't. Anyways, I'm having trouble working something out so I figured I'd post it here and see what everyone thought. I own a landscape/excavating company and we have a 2000 Freightliner fl-50 dump. It has 136k on it, all original, auto trans, CAT 3126. (yes I know). We were experiencing a lot of blowby this past year, always had some but it just got worse and worse. I was backing the truck in for the day last Spring and all of the sudden I was surrounded by white smoke. I quickly shut it down and it has basically sat ever since. In fear of causing more damage, we didnt continue to run or drive it until we could afford to replace or seriously work on it. We need the truck but I'm wondering if its worth working on it or what can be done if anything to save or work on this 3126 engine we have in it. I recently turned the key after to start it and see what would happen. After the 1st crank it pretty much jammed and locked up. Wont turn now. We are not diesel mechanics so we arent about to tear into this truck to see what we can do to fix it.


My question is, is it worth the $200 or so to get it towed to a shop who said they would see what they could do with it (could be vapor locked? they suggested or, could be fried completely) and have them open up the motor and see whats up for another couple hundred. Is it worth it?

I've found a few used 3126's in decent shape with similar or lower miles for $2500-$3000 but I'm not sure its worth all the time to swap motors for a used one....?? How much time is involved in pulling an engine like this.


I know this is a loaded topic and lots of questions. Dont go bashing me about how these engines suck, I've heard it all already. The truck has/had served us very well for many years but I need to know whether we should pull the plug on it or try and salvage it. Its got a nice body and hoist on it with no rust that I could part out, as well as some parts on the truck (cab, doors, hood, trans, tires and wheels, etc) if it comes to that. Thanks for the help and advice!! :notworthy

 

[grandpa]

I have a gut feeling its been leaking water into the combustion chambers for a while.... pull the oil dipstick and see if the oil looks good.... gramps

 

[srl28]

Last I checked it seemed fine. Any idea what will be involved with fixing it based on what's been said so far?

 

[Delmer]

Taking the head off is probably the next step, either the head gasket or the head is my guess. You could try putting the biggest breaker bar you have on the front of the crank and turning it by hand, putting moderate pressure on it for a long time to force the water out of the cylinder. Maybe put a cheater pipe on a ratchet and hang a weight from the pipe and keep turning it until it turns over several times with no locking up. Then you could start it, but I'd probably just pull the head after you figure out what it takes to put it back together. I hear these are a pain to set the injectors on, and I imagine that you'd have to do that if the head has been off?

Besides the blowby, what kind of shape was the engine in before? use any oil? start fine on the coldest days?

 

[srl28]

I wouldn't say it was the best on cold mornings but we never plugged it in. Clicked and clacked a little when it started but warmed up fine. Did seem to use a little oil but that seemed to be the blow by and maybe a small leak here and there. Ran well when it ran. Not a ton of power as its a small engine to begin with but it did its job.

Not sure how much $$$ wise I'm looking at to have someone take apart the head and all that

 

[Delmer]

Piece of cake to take it apart. Sorry, no idea what you'd pay to put it back together, if it's even worth it at that point. Among the possiblilities is bending something (con rod, crank) from the hydrolock.

 

[srl28]

True. That's what I'm afraid of at this point that's all. Trying to see if we should scrap this truck and use or sell the body or try to work on it as it sits now. It's not the first time someone has said it's possibly hydrolock

 

[richard.bessey]

If it were me, I would pull the heads, just to see whats wrong with it. You never know, it might be something simple. You could do it yourself or hire a mechanic. Problem is to pull the heads, it looks like about 1/2 of the engine needs to be taken apart to get the head off.
Even when you do get the head off, based on what you describe I am betting its catastrophic engine failure and not worth the investment. I am surprised you are able to find a similar dump truck at those prices.
I think you are easily exceed the value of the dump truck after labor and the required parts.

 

[srl28]

That's my thinking. Even if it is something relatively simple there is quite a bit of work involved to get to that point toons out what it is. Let alone the $250 each way to tow it. May be time to let the truck go and part it out. Ill be pretty sad about that. I did really enjoy the truck but it is what it is. Body is in great shape it only ever hauled mulch or leaves for us and never saw winter so it's very clean and newer than the truck. Hoist and body was put on in 2006

 

[Pipelinemech]

from my experience with 3126's i would pull the injectors first. see if you have a loaded cylinder or not. if you do whats it loaded with. i have had several 3126's blow an injector tip and white smoke and hydrolock. its easier to pull the sticks and roll it by hand to see what you have in the cylinders than it is to pull the head..

 

[mike in idaho]

That's my thinking. Even if it is something relatively simple there is quite a bit of work involved to get to that point toons out what it is. Let alone the $250 each way to tow it. May be time to let the truck go and part it out. Ill be pretty sad about that. I did really enjoy the truck but it is what it is. Body is in great shape it only ever hauled mulch or leaves for us and never saw winter so it's very clean and newer than the truck. Hoist and body was put on in 2006

Instead of $250 to tow it, pay a mechanic travel time to come out an diagnose it. It may just need an injector.

 

[tdcrash63]

Very common for this engine to experience broken piston rings. Have seen this many times. This cuases the high blowby or apperance of steam or smoke coming out of the breather. My guess for the white smoke would be a blown injector tip also. The injectors on these engines are simple to pull. But in most cases the broken piece travels through the engine damaging the exhaust valve and seat area as well as the hot wheel on the exhuast side of the turbo. In almost all cases the if the injector is replaced and the engine ran without inspecting the turbo and pulling the cylinder head and inspecting all the valves and seats you will have problems. If you have a good block, crank, and HUIE pump. It is cheaper to pull it and have it rebuilt. If not reman is the way to go. They have since updated the problem components and this is a relativly solid engine package.

 

[srl28]

Can't be cheap to rebuild it though can it? There was blowby or like you said what looked like steam coming out of the blowby tube and the oil fill if you took that cap off while or after it was running

 

[tdcrash63]

If you have a good block, crank, HUIE pump and a machine shop nearby that is able to install the sleeves purchased through your dealer it is cheaper to buy all the parts and rebuild it. At the Cat dealer I work at we have to quote this type of job, So if these componats are good. Including are labor at 104 and hour it is cheaper to rebuild it than purchase a reman component from cat. Either way you have to pull it. If you can disassemble and assemble it yourself you would save big. Cannot quote a price as dont remember the numbers. Just remember that if the crank is bad block ect it is cheaper to reman. Also remember that once you sleeve it it is done you cant resleeve it again.

 

[srl28]

Any idea how long a rebuild would take? Found 3126 rebuild kits online for about $1500.00 or so. Not sure what kind of labor is involved. I dont mind tearing into the top end of the motor and taking it apart, we have enough mechinical sense to take things apart and do simple repairs. I posted pictures of the dump body on another site asking for a value of it. I've heard its worth roughly $3500 in the condition its in (12ft long 48" side mulch body in very very good shape). May be worth selling that off, scrapping the truck itself and selling the engine block as it sits. I figure 3500 for the body, another 1500 in scrap for the truck?, 200 in tires?, another couple hundred for the block? Thats assuming it doesnt make sense to fix it

 

[Delmer]

It doesn't make any sense to part it out if this is a truck that has served you well and you still have a use for. Follow the advice to pull the injectors, then get a mechanic out or pull the head yourself. If the block is messed up, then I'd be looking for a used engine. I've rebuilt an engine here and there but I don't think I'd attempt this one myself, my understanding is it's not a sleeved engine, and special $$$ tools are required to set the injectors (never touched em though).

Unrelated question for the cat experts: what would cause a 3116 with 250k to blow lots of white smoke for a minute on cold (freezing or below) starting? If I revved it up slowly it would "catch" and run smooth and clean. used a quart of coolant in 20k, and a gallon of oil/10-15k.

 

[srl28]

At this point, what do I have to loose. I think you are correct. I should start by pulling the injectors and see whats up with the top end I'm gathering. If anyone has any other tips, tricks, suggestions or insight, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[mike in idaho]

The truck isn't making you a dime while it sits there. Is it cheaper to replace it with another truck than to fix it? Is it going to cost too much in downtime to have it fixed? Do you want to take the time to junk it out/sell the parts? If you just got another used truck to put under your box, could you buy a decent truck for the cost of an engine rebuild?

 

[srl28]

True, trust me I've run through alot of that in my head as well. I was looking for another chassis to put under this body. The truck is unfortunately only an fl-50 which has an 18k gvw. A little light for what we need but we do have tasks within the day to day that we could use a truck of that size for. Not sure exactly where to start when it comes to taking apart the engine and seeing whats up thats all.

 

[tdcrash63]

We rebuild these all the time. New trucks are not cheap. All the emissions eq is a pain. Used trucks usually have similar problems. The engine is the heart. Rebuild it and you can always take care of the other stuff as you can afford. While its out put in a clutch and make sure the cooling system is up to par. Once out it takes us about 35 hours to strip it bare block. Clean all the parts. Reasemble after machine work. Removal and install depends on application.