Need opinions from my central/west TX guys

[Dozerboy]

We are getting ready for some ponds we are doing right between San Antonio and Corpus. 400'x 400'x 6.5' the cut will be used to make a 9' dike around the ponds. The plan was to do it with a D7 and D6 in the cut. Using a 815 and vibratory roller for sure maybe a dozer too in the fill. And a 3k or 5k gal water truck. We need to move and place about 2K-3K yards a day. Others have kicked around ADTs and a hoe instead of the dozers. What to use to move the dirt isn't really and issue we will most likely be renting the iron for the job. But recommendations are welcome. My big issue is with getting the moisture we need. We will be working in caliche and the climate is dry. We will have 1/4m drive to get to a source to fill the truck and am not sure what it even is it could take 30mins to fill the truck for all I know. We have to pass compaction and I don't see 1 truck doing that with the production we need.

Thanks

 

[Puppy]

Scrapers might be quicker but at 3000 yards a day raising your moisture content by 4% you would need 45000 gallons a day. A 4000 gallon water truck would need to make 11.25 loads. The key to minimizing water needs is the quicker you can dig place and compact, the less moisture will be lost to the south Texas wind and sun. The bad thing about using dozers is the material will spend a lot of time exposed to the elements drying out thus increasing the need for more water. Just my .02.

 

[Dozerboy]

Is needing to raise the moisture by 4% generally what it takes to get you into spec?

I would like to do scrapers, but we don't have any scraper hands and we will be done before they would really get the hang of it.

 

[d9gdon]

Is needing to raise the moisture by 4% generally what it takes to get you into spec?

I would like to do scrapers, but we don't have any scraper hands and we will be done before they would really get the hang of it.

Yeah, I'd say your stuff is around 4% moisture now, so you need to add another 4-5% moisture. Can you get it to take the water that fast? Caliche is pretty broad. Is it real rough or like crushed rock or shale? I'd add a Rome plow to mix it in with since you're building something that narrow. You can probably lay it down faster than you can process it.

If they can drive ADT's then they can drive scrapers. No magic in that.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Dozerboy. An interesting problem. Classic job for a properly set up slot dozing operation which I think would be the cheapest way to move the dirt . . . getting the water into the volume of dirt could be a problem though.

Building irrigation channel embankment in dry windy conditions we found watering the cut and using egg-beater scrapers mostly bought us in on spec. although I don't recall the numbers . . . we never needed to put on so much water that traction ever became a problem.

Best of luck with it.

Cheers

 

[Puppy]

When the geo tech comes out to take a sample have him set his gauge down and find out how much moisture is in the ground naturally. He should be able to tell you what optimum should be close to for that soil type. If you are required a min 95% compaction you can be a little shy on moisture. FYI I threw 4% moisture just as a figure it might be close I don't know. Most moisture contents in density are between 8 and 12 percent in my experiences and that is figured by weight not volume.

 

[Dozerboy]

Thanks

Didn't think about a Rome plow do you actually mean literally a plow or are we just a talking about a disc? Wonder if we could find a 815 with a hyd set up or if we need to throw a tractor in there. I don't know about getting the caliche to take water that fast. Not a problem slot dozing or with scraper and a disc, but might be with ADTs and a hoe. I heard this might have some clay in it too the project is around the Three Rivers area a ways south of San Antonio.

We have different opinions of scraper operators even though they are overrated truck drivers. Its a steep learning curve when you don't have someone to run with that knows what they are doing. I don't want to have to get on one for a week to show them.

We are just getting into civil work from doing load outs of contaminated soil so this is going to be a learning experience for most of our guys. Including our estimators.

 

[Turbo21835]

What are you planning on using to fill your truck from the water source? One of our sites is currently using a 2200 gallon water truck, and that takes approx 15 minutes to fill with a 3 inch electric pump. You may want a quick fill tank on this job if it is not already planned

 

[d9gdon]

Thanks

Didn't think about a Rome plow do you actually mean literally a plow or are we just a talking about a disc? Wonder if we could find a 815 with a hyd set up or if we need to throw a tractor in there. I don't know about getting the caliche to take water that fast. Not a problem slot dozing or with scraper and a disc, but might be with ADTs and a hoe. I heard this might have some clay in it too the project is around the Three Rivers area a ways south of San Antonio.

We have different opinions of scraper operators even though they are overrated truck drivers. Its a steep learning curve when you don't have someone to run with that knows what they are doing. I don't want to have to get on one for a week to show them.

We are just getting into civil work from doing load outs of contaminated soil so this is going to be a learning experience for most of our guys. Including our estimators.

I was talking about an actual Rome plow disc (like a 24 - 36") so that you can water the fill and plow it in quickly to get your moisture incorporated. I don't know how rough the caliche will be as you might just be able to use a farm disc. A big tractor(Challengers or 4WD) would work better so you can pull it faster. It works better for me anyway.

I use scrapers so the fill gets somewhat packed and water won't soak in so I disc it and then water it. This'll depend on how much moisture you'll need to add and your compaction %, maybe need a processing area right next to the fill before you place it. You can also water the cut as was said earlier, maybe that would be faster depending on the factors I mentioned earlier.

That 30 minute fill time on the water truck won't work in my opinion. Get a faster way to fill it or get a second truck so that you have it on hand.

 

[Dozerboy]

Scrapers might be quicker but at 3000 yards a day raising your moisture content by 4% you would need 45000 gallons a day. A 4000 gallon water truck would need to make 11.25 loads. The key to minimizing water needs is the quicker you can dig place and compact, the less moisture will be lost to the south Texas wind and sun. The bad thing about using dozers is the material will spend a lot of time exposed to the elements drying out thus increasing the need for more water. Just my .02.

Puppy what the equation you used to find out how much water it would take to raise the moisture? I've never known someone use one.

 

[Puppy]

If your dry density is 130lbs and you want say 10% moisture than you would need 13lbs of water per 130 lbs of material. 13lbs of water is equal to 1.56 gallons of water. The dry density weight is figured per cubic foot. 27 cubic feet per yard equals 42.12 gallons of water times how ever many yards you are working. If your material is at 5% moisture naturally and you need 10% than half of that would be needed. **[(moisture•dry density)/8.35]27**total yards. If that makes any sense. I am sure that someone with better algebra skills can write the formula a lot better than me.

 

[Dozerboy]

Thanks makes sense I've just never had to figure that before. Normally here on the coast we are trying to dry things out not make them wetter.

 

[AquaPaint]

Depending on the moisture id also recomend a 10k gal water tower. We have caliche out here and like said above we use a stiger 9380 with a 24" disc to help mix along with a 824, scrapers would be the best bet depending on how far your cut is from the fills, and hey if ya need a good scraper hand...im just sittin at home right now anyways lol.