My first backhoe - 580B

[kirk22]

Hi all. I just picked this up yesterday. It's a 1973 580B that needs some TLC. I'm going to use it for light duty odd jobs around the property.

This is my first backhoe and I don't have much experience with tractors except for building a Detroit 453 recently so I expect to be asking a lot of noob questions. I do know how to turn a wrench, use a torch, cut metal, and weld.

The machine has some leaks in the cylinders. Most aren't that bad. A drop here and there. Should I bother repairing those? On one swing cylinder I have a steady leak. It's coming out around the gland nut. (is that the proper term?) I don't yet have a spanner wrench to try to tighten it up. I've seen the adjustable spanner wrenches on the net that use a 1/2" breaker bar. Do they work? Or should I buy a wrench for each size of cylinder? What's a good brand to buy? How tight are these caps?

The front bucket arm is slightly bowed and has been repaired. The rear repair was done properly and the front repair looks like a farmer's weld. I don't like it either but I expect it'll hold well enough for my use. Maybe I'll find a used arm one of these years. I suspect that the damage was caused at the same time that the front bucket damage happened. That's just a guess though. Any other guesses?

What I presume is a bucket leveling rod is missing. Is that a simple rod with ends that connect to the hole in the bucket tilt bar and then to the mechanics by the hand lever?

The front bucket is missing some of the steel on the bottom. Is that something I can just make from some plate or is it special in some way? Hardened?

The left wheel is missing something. Would that be the kingpin bearing? Is there anything else that is missing?

Last but not least, the boom lock is shot. Does anyone have a template of what a new one looks like so I can make up a new set?

Any help or comments wold be appreciated.

Kirk

 

[kirk22]

Here are some more pics:

 

[Cavalo]

Hey Kirk22, you want to ask Elast from this forum those questions that you have..........he is very knowledgable about Case Machines, especially the older ones............here is his profile URL on this forum.......send him a direct message
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/member.php?u=4096

 

[Elast]

Hi all. I just picked this up yesterday. It's a 1973 580B that needs some TLC. I'm going to use it for light duty odd jobs around the property.

This is my first backhoe and I don't have much experience with tractors except for building a Detroit 453 recently so I expect to be asking a lot of noob questions. I do know how to turn a wrench, use a torch, cut metal, and weld.

The machine has some leaks in the cylinders. Most aren't that bad. A drop here and there. Should I bother repairing those? On one swing cylinder I have a steady leak. It's coming out around the gland nut. (is that the proper term?) Yes this is the proper term. If the leak is just the gland then pull pin on rod end, undo gland nut and roll a new o-ring onto gland. This will save you from completely dissassembling cylinder. If backup ring is not damaged just reuse it.I don't yet have a spanner wrench to try to tighten it up. I've seen the adjustable spanner wrenches on the net that use a 1/2" breaker bar. Do they work?Yes they work but the 3 pin custom ones work best. I have used the universal 2 pin style for years with great success Or should I buy a wrench for each size of cylinder? What's a good brand to buy? How tight are these caps?

The front bucket arm is slightly bowed and has been repaired. The rear repair was done properly and the front repair looks like a farmer's weld. I don't like it either but I expect it'll hold well enough for my use. Maybe I'll find a used arm one of these years. I suspect that the damage was caused at the same time that the front bucket damage happened. That's just a guess though. Any other guesses?The usual spots for 580B's to break was at the crosstube between the loader arms near the front. I have seen some break farther up the arms though. It may just be fatigue damage.

What I presume is a bucket leveling rod is missing. Is that a simple rod with ends that connect to the hole in the bucket tilt bar and then to the mechanics by the hand lever?Correct there was a linkage that went from the loader linkage to the control valve. It was for return to dig/antirollback linkage.

The front bucket is missing some of the steel on the bottom. Is that something I can just make from some plate or is it special in some way? Hardened?It is not special, regular mild steel plate is fine

The left wheel is missing something. Would that be the kingpin bearing? Is there anything else that is missing?Looks like the thrust bearing is gone. I have a trick to rebuild spindle if bearings are gone. Let me know if you want to repair/tighten up spindle and I will explain it to you.

Last but not least, the boom lock is shot. Does anyone have a template of what a new one looks like so I can make up a new set? I will see if I still have one around and get drawing for you

Any help or comments wold be appreciated.

Kirk

Good Luck........Elast:canada

 

[kirk22]

Thanks for the replies. I do think I should do something with the spindle. There's so much slop that I think it will do some damage. Any tricks would be appreciated.

I looked at the front arm again and now I'm thinking that the hoe was pulling the front bucket into the air and the operator let it crash into the ground one too many times. :Banghead That would explain the direction of the bow.

I think I'll buy one of those universal spanners and if that doesn't work I'll buy a 3 pin one for the bigger cylinders. And if that doesn't work, I guess it's time to buy a big pipe wrench.

BTW, Does anyone have a photo of a gland nut after it's been removed? I'm curious as to how deep the threads go into the cylinder.

 

[Elast]

Thanks for the replies. I do think I should do something with the spindle. There's so much slop that I think it will do some damage. Any tricks would be appreciated.

I looked at the front arm again and now I'm thinking that the hoe was pulling the front bucket into the air and the operator let it crash into the ground one too many times. :Banghead That would explain the direction of the bow.

I think I'll buy one of those universal spanners and if that doesn't work I'll buy a 3 pin one for the bigger cylinders. And if that doesn't work, I guess it's time to buy a big pipe wrench.

BTW, Does anyone have a photo of a gland nut after it's been removed? I'm curious as to how deep the threads go into the cylinder.

The gland nut is about 3"-4 inches deep. The threads typically go about 1 1/2 inches. The oring and backup ring are just behind the outside rim of the gland. The rest of the seals are inside.

Elast

 

[N.CarolinaDozer]

Great piece of equipment to start with. You can get alot of small jobs in with it. Good luck in your investment.

 

[kirk22]

Well I got some seat time in today. I dug a dozen stumps out. Got myself stuck in red clay goo. Used the hoe to push me out. Fun stuff. People get paid for this?

There's a couple more issues however. My 580B is different than my friends. On his you didn't have to use the clutch to shift the shuttle. On mine I do need to use the clutch. I'm pretty confused about the different shuttle shifts on these. What do I have? Is it good or bad?

On the cab floor there's a high/low shifter. It will pop out of low gear by itself. If I manually hold the shifter up it WILL stay in low gear. Because of it popping out of low, I've been running it in high gear and first speed. At some points when pushing a big load, the engine's spinning but the wheels aren't. Is this normal or a sign of clutch or shuttle problems? I don't want to fry anything.

One of the things I need a backhoe for is to build a workshop so right now I don't have the space to break this thing in half to do major repairs.

Oh, one more thing. What's the round 'pedal' by the foot throttle? Does that lock the rear differential up?

Kirk

 

[coopers]

Oh, one more thing. What's the round 'pedal' by the foot throttle? Does that lock the rear differential up?

Yes, diff. lock.

If I manually hold the shifter up it WILL stay in low gear. Because of it popping out of low, I've been running it in high gear and first speed.

If you have it in high you're not getting enough torque to get power to handle strenuous loads I think. I'm not too familiar with the B's when it comes to technical stuff. Ours just had the 4 speed or whatever it was and you'd stop the hoe, put it in neutral and move to whatever gear you wanted, there was no high or low speed. Anything over 2nd gear and you didn't have enough power to scoop into heavy materials like topsoil but you sure could cruise around the lot. I would not continue to do that unless you hear from Phil or Elast about this, I don't think it's good to be using the machine in heavy applications in high gear.

Blake
WA

 

[kirk22]

Yes, diff. lock.



If you have it in high you're not getting enough torque to get power to handle strenuous loads I think. I'm not too familiar with the B's when it comes to technical stuff. Ours just had the 4 speed or whatever it was and you'd stop the hoe, put it in neutral and move to whatever gear you wanted, there was no high or low speed. Anything over 2nd gear and you didn't have enough power to scoop into heavy materials like topsoil but you sure could cruise around the lot. I would not continue to do that unless you hear from Phil or Elast about this, I don't think it's good to be using the machine in heavy applications in high gear.

Blake
WA

Well this is first gear high I've been using. It only took a couple times for me to figure out that something may not be right. I think I can bungee up the low range shifter to keep it in low gear. It doesn't take much pressure to hold it. Just enough to counter the weight of the shifter arm. I'll know more after I try the bungee. It seems more like a poor design and detent problem rather that a badly worn gear forcing itself out of the way. (If that makes sense)

 

[Elast]

Well I got some seat time in today. I dug a dozen stumps out. Got myself stuck in red clay goo. Used the hoe to push me out. Fun stuff. People get paid for this?

There's a couple more issues however. My 580B is different than my friends. On his you didn't have to use the clutch to shift the shuttle. On mine I do need to use the clutch. I'm pretty confused about the different shuttle shifts on these. What do I have? Is it good or bad? Yours is a mechanical power shuttle unit with a dry clutch. The other style is a hydraulic power shuttle. On yours the clutch pedal disengages the clutch. On the other it is a hydraulic declutch valve(puts hydraulic clutch in neutral)

On the cab floor there's a high/low shifter. It will pop out of low gear by itself. If I manually hold the shifter up it WILL stay in low gear.The mechanical dual range transmission has a slider collar engagement. It moves a collar to engage either high or low locking either gear to the shaft giving the two speeds. If it is "kicking" out of gear either the parts are wore or the shift rail is not moving all the way to engage fully. Pull shift cover and check for full rail movement and look at the gears for signs of wear. Because of it popping out of low, I've been running it in high gear and first speed. At some points when pushing a big load, the engine's spinning but the wheels aren't. Is this normal or a sign of clutch or shuttle problems? This is not normal. The engine is overpowering the clutch. The disc is either worn bad or has oil on it, either way this is not good.I don't want to fry anything.

One of the things I need a backhoe for is to build a workshop so right now I don't have the space to break this thing in half to do major repairs.

Oh, one more thing. What's the round 'pedal' by the foot throttle? Does that lock the rear differential up?As stated by coopers this is the difflock

Kirk

Good Luck....Elast:canada

 

[kirk22]

Thanks so much Elast. I'll pull the shift cover this weekend.

What's the general procedure for accessing the clutch? I can baby the clutch until I can either find another machine or build my shop but I would like a general idea of what's involved. For example does the loader and hoe have to come off before splitting the tractor in half?

 

[Elast]

Thanks so much Elast. I'll pull the shift cover this weekend.

What's the general procedure for accessing the clutch? I can baby the clutch until I can either find another machine or build my shop but I would like a general idea of what's involved. For example does the loader and hoe have to come off before splitting the tractor in half?

Put tractor in high range high gear and let clutch out slowly. If it does not try to stall engine clutch is slipping bad.

You do not have to take off loader or hoe, you can change clutch by removing engine only. Lota of supports are needed but it is easilly done. I have done many over the years.

Elast

 

[kirk22]

I do have a friend with a shop a couple miles away. He's got his own equipment to work on though. About how much time are you talking about to pull the engine and replace the clutch?

Can you be more specific on the supports. Would that be wood cribbing under the trans or the front end???? Can the engine and front end be rolled forward as a unit?

I'm not at the machine right now. Is there an access plate to check for oil on the clutch or in the flywheel housing?

I'm sorry to be asking such noob questions. I'm still waiting on a manual. I really do appreciate your help.

 

[Elast]

I do have a friend with a shop a couple miles away. He's got his own equipment to work on though. About how much time are you talking about to pull the engine and replace the clutch? You and a buddy can do it in a weekend n/p

Can you be more specific on the supports. Would that be wood cribbing under the trans or the front end???? Can the engine and front end be rolled forward as a unit?Stretch out hoe as far as it can go then after shutting off tractor cycle controls to get hoe to relax in position, support loader arms at the top with angle irons cut to proper length to hold loader arms up, use cable ties to hold angle to shaft then set loader down onto angle to hold in position. Put jack stands under backhoe mounting frames where thay end just under steps that you use to get onto machine. Shim these to take up slack untill they are just taking weight. Put a block and bottle jack under bellhousing and take up slack, do not lift tractor with jack. Attach engine hoist with a chain to bolts that hold rocker cover on, take up slack. Remove front grill, remove hydraulic suction pipes, remove bolts that hold loader frame to rad guard. Unhook all relevant lines and starter etc. Undo all relevant wiring etc. Undo all bellhousing bolts and remove engine and front axle as a unit. BE CAREFULL, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS SUPPORTED PROPERLY. It will roll out real easy and everything should be held in proper position to be reinstalled. Re & Re clutch, release bearing and pilot bearing/bushing and reasseble in reverse order. This is a brief how to I know but if you do not have the skills to look at tractor and pick up on what I have said or may have missed explaining here then you SHOULD NOT be doing this job, take it to a professional. I am not being ignorant or judgmental here I just want to make sure that you are safe and do not get injured trying to do this.

I'm not at the machine right now. Is there an access plate to check for oil on the clutch or in the flywheel housing?Not a real good one. Take out starter is best bet

I'm sorry to be asking such noob questions. I'm still waiting on a manual. I really do appreciate your help.

Have fun and be carefull. Have lots of beer around (drank in moderation till AFTER the work is done) and all your buddies will be glad to help...LOL

Elast

 

[Phil]

Kirk22,
I do have a pattern off a used B boom latch that was in near perfect condition when I bought it. I will see if I can locate it. Not sure about the material used in this application, if you plan on making a new one. Check for all washers used when you replace the front spindle thrust bearing. They may be missing or damaged. Clean off the oil on your swing cylinder gland and make sure that is the leak. I had a leak from a crack at the base of the weld-on fitting that sits near it, recently. Good luck, Phil:canada

 

[kirk22]

Elast, That makes sense thanks. You are most helpful.

Is it normal procedure to resurface/replace the flywheel or pressure plate or is that only done if there is visible damage.

While it is split is there anything else I should replace? Rear main seal, tranny input shaft seal, etc?

I've seen the other posts on how much of a b*tch it is to gain access to the shuttle clutches on the B models. With the engine out, am I any closer to accessing them for replacement? How about the high/low gears if they are bad?
Is it possible that the shuttle could be the cause of the slipping rather than the main clutch?

 

[kirk22]

Kirk22,
I do have a pattern off a used B boom latch that was in near perfect condition when I bought it. I will see if I can locate it. Not sure about the material used in this application, if you plan on making a new one. Check for all washers used when you replace the front spindle thrust bearing. They may be missing or damaged. Clean off the oil on your swing cylinder gland and make sure that is the leak. I had a leak from a crack at the base of the weld-on fitting that sits near it, recently. Good luck, Phil:canada

Thanks Phil. A latch pattern would be most helpful. I have an old pantograph flame cutter that could cut them out fairly easily after I make the first metal pattern.

 

[Elast]

Elast, That makes sense thanks. You are most helpful.

Is it normal procedure to resurface/replace the flywheel or pressure plate or is that only done if there is visible damage. Always resurface the flywheel. Never change just the clutch disc always change disc and PP together, also change release brg and pilot bearing.

While it is split is there anything else I should replace? Rear main seal, tranny input shaft seal, etc?You have to see when you split unit. If you see oil leaks fix them then

I've seen the other posts on how much of a b*tch it is to gain access to the shuttle clutches on the B models. With the engine out, am I any closer to accessing them for replacement? You do not have the dreaded power shuttle clutchs that most B models have. You have a mechanical shuttle instead. The mechanical shuttle(H/L & F/R) is in the same position as the hydraulic one and if you want to access it you can remove the torque tube(centre section) after the engine is outHow about the high/low gears if they are bad?
Is it possible that the shuttle could be the cause of the slipping rather than the main clutch?If you are not popping out of gear when the tractor stops moving then the shuttle is not the problem

Elast:canada

 

[tresslers]

Just Got a 580B

For some reason I can not start a new post but I can reply to an existing one.

Right now I am new to heavy equipment. I got a case 580B today. It needs some work and I am hoping you guys can help me with it. I first should get an operators manual so i know how all the controls work. So am I trying to find one of these.

The machine needs work. It will start and drive, the buckets are in nice shape, the hydraulics work but some of the cylinders leak and the hoe drops pretty quickly.

The electrical is tore up on it. I will have to find a wiring diagram to repair it.

The tach does not work. Is that electrical or cable driven?

The brakes do nothing. I am guessing that the two pedals on the right are the left and right brakes. Do these have a master cylinder and where should I look for it?

I think the machine is low on hydraulic fluid, how can I check this, and what type of fluid should I use? The standard hydraulic fluid from Wal-mart?

On the right side of the machine there is something that looks like a pressure gauge? I am not sure as it is damaged? Do they have a pressure gauge on the hydraulics? Is the filter on the right side, and is it a cartridge type filter?

The engine smokes a little when I first start it up but am told this is normal. It is a diesel.

I have also saw there is a difference between a power shuttle shift and a dry clutch. Mine machine has a clutch pedal, but i don't need to push it in to change direction. I do need to push it in to change gear. What type of transmission do i have in the machine. What is the better type to have? If you guys need pictures to help me what should i take a picture of?

My first plans for the machine is to change all the fluids and filters, repair the brakes, and the cylinder leaks.

While I would like to think of myself as a pretty good mechanic, but that is just on cars and trucks, not heavy equipment. I hope you guys can help me out a bit.

I am told I should get a service manual, there are several out there from the printed manuals to ones on cd. I can use the ones on cd, but I question how good they are. There is a good price difference between a printed one and a cd.

I am on a bit of a budget, but the machine came along at a good price, or so I think. Maybe I was wrong.

I will try and get pictures up as soon as I can and as soon as I figure out how to post them.

Thanks for the help in Advance