Michigan 85GM-3A

[6V53]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased this piece of equipment from a neighbor. I believe it is a Michigan 85GM-3A with a serial number of 401A245. This is based on a data plate I found on engine cover (roof). For all I know this could be a replacement cover. I have been unable to find a serial number stamped on anything structural.

Information on these loaders is very difficult to find. I can find something on pretty much everything offered by Clark-Michigan. However the 85-3A’s are a complete mystery. Does anyone have any information on them such as year of manufacture, approximate number made, intended use (pit mining I have heard).

I do have an operator’s manual which I have scanned onto PDF I can offer if anyone is interested or has any manuals they would like to trade or allow me to scan. I would also be interested in any service manuals or repair manuals for the Detroit Diesel 6V53N engine this has in it.

Right now the machine starts right up and runs and sounds beautiful. All I have done so far is change the engine oil and filter (I used Chevron Delo 400 sae 40 weight), changed the fuel filters (primary and secondary), and am ready to flush the radiator. My next project is to pressure clean the entire machine and begin finding and greasing all the fittings.

What else would you guys recommend I do to the machine. I was thinking of changing the transmission fluid and filter. What about the hydraulic fluid and filter should this be changed also? Any other oil reservoirs I’m missing. I am using this machine for just my own personal use on some property I own. I’m not a mechanic or equipment operator by profession but probably more mechanically inclined than your average person. I would also consider myself very good with maintenance and gentle on equipment.

If anyone has any opinions on the Michigan loaders in general and the 85-IIIA loader in particular and/or the Detroit Diesel 6V53N I would be very interested to hear what you have to say.

Thank you,

Dan

 

[willie59]

Yep, that sho nuff looks like Florida.

I don't know anything about Michigan loaders, but I know a little about 2 stroke Detroits. Delo 400 exceeds the maximum sulfated ash content for those engines. The best oil to use is Delo 100, SAE 40. You won't likely find it on a shelf as it's not used that much any longer, but it is available. I'm pretty certain O'Reilly can order it.

It's not a bad idea to change the tranny fluid and filter, that way you know it's good. As for the hyd oil, it's difficult to change all of the fluid anyway because a good portion of the oil remains in system components. If the fluid looks clean and clear, I would change the hyd filters and carry on. If the oil is milky looking, that's a whole new can of worms.

As for parts, MinnPar holds the parts rights to Clark/Michigan.

http://www.minnpar.com/

 

[oldseabee]

I would change the trans/converter oil and filters. There was a supplement to the operators manual on oil specs. At temps above 0 deg F you can use 10 weight engine oil API class SD, or SE, Mil-L- 2104B or Mil-L-2104C. Advise cutting open the old filters to see what sort of debris is in them, a lot of bronze might indicate clutch plate wear, steel bits could mean bearing wear.
Hydraulic oil at 30 Deg F ambient and above 30 weight engine oil, -10 Deg F ambient and above 10 weight engine oil (same mil spec as trans.) or C2 Hydraulic trans oil. Again, cut open the old filters. The 2420 transmission is pretty bullet proof, two things, bring machine to a full stop before changing directions, this trans is not modulated for soft shift. Come to full stop before changing from work range to travel range and visa versa this is a mechanical shifting of gears in the transmission, not a hydraulic shift.

 

[6V53]

ATCOEQUIP: Oh well, Delo 400 is what my friend told me to use. Should I just drain the oil completely and refill with Delo 100 SAE 40? Do you have an oil you like better than Cheveron Delo? What would you recommend as an engine oil change interval for this machine?

I also see the emergency shut off cable is gone. I plan on reconnecting that the next time I work on it. Do you think it’s also a good idea to keep a CO2 fire extinguisher on the machine to blast in the air inlet in case of a runaway? I’ve read that in the event of a runaway the emergency shut off isn’t always enough and sometimes the engine will run backwards. I have no experience with this but from reading the best way to stop this without destroying the engine is a CO2 fire extinguisher in the air intake.

oldseabee: The transmission and torque converters share the same oil and the same filter but they must both be drained individually correct? I’m looking at the charts for the transmission and torque converter and the manuals indicate the oil you are recommending for temps above 0 degrees. I live in Florida and It gets below 30 only a couple nights a year but that is overnight and by daytime it’s in the upper 40s on the coldest of days. For 30 degrees and up the manual recommends either:

- Engine oil: grade 30 API-CD/SE CD/SF

Or

- C-3 Grade 30

Do you think I should use one of these oils instead based on my climate? And do you have any recommendations of oils which meet these specs. It looks like the Cheveron Delo 100 SAE 30 should work correct. What about Shell Rotella T SAE 30?

I called Minnpar and they said to use AW 46 hydraulic oil which is for warm weather. The person I talked to said I could also use generic tractor hydraulic oil and said regular 10W-30 would probably work just fine but didn’t recommend it. So you are saying that regular SAE 30 weight car oil is fine? I don’t know what is in there now so would be mixing different oils around be ok?

Thanks for all the help guys. It is greatly appreciated.

Dan

 

[6V53]

One more question for you guys: When I flush the radiator is there any special coolant I should refill it with. Someone told me to use Nalcool coolant. Do I have to use this or can I just use regular automotive antifreeze and distilled water?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[oldseabee]

Transmission and converter both use transmission as sump, so you only need to drain transmission, the converter has a drain back line to the transmission. When you pull the plug to drain the transmission, there is a suction screen behind the plug, be sure and clean it at the same time, and check it for any bits of metal (Bearing may be on it's way out) and chunks of rubber that may indicate a hose liner coming apart, that machine is pretty old and some of the hoses could be original. As far as the transmission oil, as long as it meets API SD or SE (I think that SD is no longer made). You should check with your oil supplier about that. As far as the hydraulics, AW 46 would be OK or the 10 Weight engine oil, I wouldn't use multi weight oils, I have changed to 20 weight oil in some severe applications in hot climates. Minnpar is only a parts supplier for Michigan machines just recently, so I wouldn't rely on them to much for technical info.
Detroit did recommend Nacool, I would defer to your local Detroit distributor to be sure, but I know that a lot of these older machines ran fine on regular antifreeze before Nacool was even invented.

 

[6V53]

Ok so I see the main replaceable element filter; that looks easy. I also see the magnetic drain plug as well as the suction screen plug both in the transmission sump in different locations. All of this looks pretty easy. Reading from the manual it also talks about a “converter cooler line strainer” but I don’t see it on any diagrams. Do you know anything about this? Here’s a quote from the manual:

“Converter cooler line strainer is located on the
cooler line between converter and radiator oil
cooler on left side of rear frame. Remove screen
from strainer and wash with hot soapy water,
rinse in hot clear water and reinstall in strainer,
if screen is in serviceable condition. If screen is
damaged in any way, it should be replaced. Repeat
servicing procedure every 250 operating hours.”

I’m not sure what to look for here I guess I should just trace the oil line from the torque converter to the oil cooler and look for an in line filter of some type?

It also says in the manual to remove the breather caps and elements (not sure what they mean by elements?) from rear of transmission and top of torque converter housing. Then clean parts in solvent dry and reassemble. What’s the point of this just to make sure they aren’t rusted in place? I also don’t see these “breather caps” on any diagrams. I see “oil filler opening”, “oil level check points” but not breather caps. Do these go by some other name? These are not solid plugs I assume; they must have some sort of check valve?

You say the machine is pretty old; how old are you talking? Just curious more than anything.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[oldseabee]

The strainer looks like a plumbing fitting, sort of Y shaped with 3 ports, in and out and the 3rd sticks up at a 45 Deg angle, that's where you access the screen.
What they call breather caps look like just a plain breather, but when you take the cap off, there is a small filter and a check valve. the check valve is to keep oil from blowing out of the breather, just to let filtered air in to prevent a vacuum in the trans or conv.. the check valve poppet sometimes will fall out and the breather will blow oil all over and look like a major failure but don't panic, check the breathers for missing check valve.
As far as age, not sure but I would guess mid 70's. Clark quit making the 85 IIIA because the 75 85 and 125 were too close together, they upgraded the 75B and degraded the 125B and dropped the 85, not that it was a bad machine, but just a marketing and cost thing.

 

[willie59]

Hi 6V53, the skinny on the 2 stroke Detroit engine oil concerns mainly 2 things, doesn't matter which brand oil you use, it just has to meet certain specs. #1; never under any circumstances use multi grade oil, such as 15W/40. It causes accelerated component wear in those engines. #2; use only SAE 40 grade oil that has 1.0% or less sulfated ash content, lowest amount below 1.0 is preferred as opposed to an oil that is right at 1.0%. Ash content above 1.0% will cause increased oil consumption.

Here's a link to some info about the oil published by Tejas Coach Works. Note the info is from 2006, but I did a search and the ash content of Delo 100 and Delo 400 remains consistent to the information. If it were me, I would dump the Delo 400.

http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html

 

[Dominion 410]

We had a couple 6V53's. Used to run Shell Rotella 30 in the winter, Shell Rotella 50 in the warmer months. No problems and not as much leakage it seemed with the #50.

Dominion

 

[6V53]

Well I’ll be heading out to my property next week and will look everything over to be sure I can find everything before I begin draining oil out of the transmission.

Do you know how many of these breather valves there are on the torque converter and how many are on the transmission? I want to make sure I find them all. These breather caps have wrench flats and unscrew I would assume? Will I need to order new filters for all of these breather caps or they more like screens I can wash in solvent? And for that matter where my best place to purchase the filters and gaskets is I will need for this job? Minnpar?

So just to go over the procedure, the transmission and torque converter are both drained from the drain plug in the transmission sump. Once I have drained all I can get out of this I clean the screen in the sump as well as the screen between the torque converter and oil cooler; I remove the breather caps and clean them as well; and replace the single main filter which serves both the transmission and torque converter. Next I put all this back together with new filters and gaskets and add 7 gallons of oil into the torque converter fill hole. This will provide oil for both the torque converter and transmission.

Once this is done from the sound of the book I am supposed to remove the oil cooler hose return line (the line going from the oil cooler back to the transmission) and direct this into a bucket and start the engine and idle it for a little while (15 - 30 seconds I would guess) with the shift range lever and positing speed range selector in high and the directional shift lever in forward. This should get the oil out of the oil cooler. Is this correct? My speed range selector is broken and stuck in slow; is this a problem. It is not a problem with the transmission it’s self as far as I know but a broker part between the lever and the transmission.

Once this is done I get everything up to operating temperature and check the transmission oil and I am done. Does this sound about right?

ATCOEQUIP: That link was great. Lots of good information. I will drain the Delo 400 and refill with Delo 100. I already have the Delo 100 on order already. I found it at West Marine. They had to special order it from California.

Dan

 

[oldseabee]

If I recall rightly the filters in the breather caps are sintered bronze and just need to be cleaned, unless they are damaged. Don't forget to check on the check valves in the breathers.
The cooler doesn't hold much oil, so 10 to 15 seconds should be plenty. When you get the oil warmed up, check the level, do not overfill, this can get the sump oil level up into the gears and cause foaming. The 7 gal. is just an estimate, not exact.
Most of the Clark skidders use the same breathers and some other parts. Allied Equipment bought the skidder line from Clark and is another source for parts, some driveline parts are common with the 664B,and C, 666B, and C, and your loader. You can plug in a part number at Allied to see if they have it.

 

[6V53]

oldseabee: I got a good look at the transmission today and found everything except for the transmission breather. I found the torque converter breather no problem but the only breather I see on the transmission is on the control valve assembly. I sure hope it is not supposed to go at the very top of the transmission casing because there is a dirt plugged hole up there. It almost seems as if something was supposed to go there at one time.

Thank you again for your help.

Dan

 

[oldseabee]

The breather on the control valve is for the transmission, the threaded hole on top of the transmission is to install a lifting eye to pick it up.

 

[6V53]

Ok, somehow I was looking for a breather directly on the transmission casing. The breather caps are just snapped on there and can be pried off with a little screw driver and the filter pulled out correct?

I guess I have everything now. Just waiting on the filter to come in and I’ll get started. I’ll let you know how it goes.

Thanks, Dan

 

[oldseabee]

There may be two styles breather. If the one on the valve is shorter it may be just a breather not a check valve. I would clean around it and unscrew it and have a look up inside to see what it is The check valve ones have a screw on top or the cover unscrews . You never know what has been put on over the years.

 

[6V53]

Well everything went very well. I drained out about 2.5 gallons of what looked like red transmission fluid. The drain plug was clean with no large chunks of metal stuck to it at all. I found both screens with no problems and they both looked new. I didn’t find any foreign material in either of the two screens. The breather on the torque converter came right off and un-screwed into two different pieces. It was caked with grime on the outside but looked great on the inside. I washed everything in a parts washer and reassembled. The transmission / torque converter filter had a weird little setup with a spring, cone shaped washer and a snap ring. The snap ring was misshapen and did not hold everything in place. I reassembled it with a new snap ring in the only order which made sense. None of the rubber gaskets which came with the new filter fit but the old ones looked as good as new so I just re-used them.

The breather on top of the control valve is impossible for me to get a wrench on. It is just in too tight of a space. I can feel it with my hands and the cap and it spins freely but does not feel like it simply un-screws. Got any ideas?

I only drained about 2.5 gallons of fluid from the transmission. Am I now supposed to put the full 7 gallons into the torque converter before running for a couple seconds to remove the oil from the oil cooler. I would hate to think the transmission was that low. All the everything is put back together right now. All I need to do is figure out how important that last breather is and add the oil.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Dan

 

[oldseabee]

I wouldn't worry too much about the breather on the valve as long as it's not blowing any oil out. The converter and trans are interconnected, so the breather on the converter should suffice.
If you do find a way to get at it, go ahead and service or change it, I think that there is room to install a 2 or 3" nipple and coupler to raise the breather up to where it is more accesable.
The original oil spec called for Dexron (Not Dexron II) in the trans and converter. They did come out later with a spec change to allow engine oil, in some areas with high ambient temps would thin the Dexron too much.
2.5 gallons is pretty low level, remember to check the level with the engine running, trans in neutral, and the oil hot. Best time to check is at end of day. I wouldn't just dump in 7 gallons, start with 5 and work your way up to full level. Too much oil will get into gear train and cause foaming which is not good, and some oil will be trapped in the converter.

 

[sbarton77]

I am looking for the manual for this loader. Ours is currently broke down and unfortunately it did not come with one. Can anyone help?

 

[Welder Dave]

I am looking for the manual for this loader. Ours is currently broke down and unfortunately it did not come with one. Can anyone help?

I noticed in your other thread you listed your machine as 1968 so I think 6V53's would be around the same year.