michigan 175b fuel prob

[rooferdave]

hi all! been a while since I have been on due to a crazy work schedule. We have been muddling through with varios issues with my loader, big lesson learned was DO NOT leave your loader parked for the summer and not pay the piper come winter! Once winter ends this bad boy is due for a ton of lovin!!!!!!!

Anyhow to my problem today first the back ground, 1976 175 b it has always been quick to fire up, this season it took a lot of cranking even in the summer when I fired it up 3-5 times. when we tried to deliver it to site it was a no start, turned out the filters were dry and there was some orange silicone substance in the 1st filter. Changed both filters and cleaned lines it ran fine, after this starting got harder and harder and we had to keep priming the system, next we changed the antisyphon valve just in front of the primary filter, still we had problems till at last no start at all. We think it was the lift pump as it is a major project and the machine is on location we purchased an afermarket inline pump and switch it on to move the diesel to the injector pump, this is located between the two filters. its a pain but it should get me through the winter. I ran it last week in about 1 degree celcius ( 33 degrees for the amercans) then we went up to 14 c for a few days then down to 21 below zero.

tried to start it friday and no diesel (or very little) in the filters and the pump will not draw fuel,

 

[rooferdave]

sorry I will continue I was afraid I maight lose the post,

we pressurised the tank and a bit of fuel dribbled into the primary filter (put a clear line in to see fuel) put compressed air back from the filter line to tank and we heard a bang in the tank, we took the anti syphon valve to the shop and it had ice in it thinking ice in the tank (1/4 full) we added diesel 911 for such problems (ice and gelling issues) added another 20 liters of diesel and next day we added methal hydrate, still hear banging from the tank when we send air back through the line from the filter (is there another valve in the tank?) poured methal hydrate back through the line and now are going back to see if this worked..the engine is a 871 detroit, any one have any ideas? Other than drain the tank and pull inspection plate off which is kinda tough on location in a shopping mall

 

[rooferdave]

well it worked!!! afer two days of messing about the ice is out of the tank but as it turns when my guy pressurised the tank instaed of a dribble it was an eruption of fuel out of the line lol....

but now ( and this is ongoing) park brake is frozen on (sigh) and the air will not blow off so the system is overpressurising, going up with a hot air gun and hair dryer and a roofing torch with a 65 ml head (1700 degrees F) We aare also going to try and add a deicing product to the air system. Does any one have any ideas for this? do these not have air driers on them some where?

 

[rooferdave]

well we shut it down as the air pressure was getting high and when I arrived when we tried to restart it ran for two mins and ran out of fuel again (tank is 1/4 full) pressurize tank nope nothing, dissconnect at primary filter and send air back we hear the bang in the tank and some bubbles but it is as if it is mostly air not bubbles... cracked tube? but if so air would come back when we fill the tank with air, does any one have a diagram of the tube assembly in the tank??? is there a foot valve maybe?

 

[Delmer]

It sounds like you isolated your fuel problems to the tank at least. If you can't get the intake out of the tank to check it, what about putting in a temporary tank until you can work on it? I like to use boat tanks, but that might not last you long enough. At least it would confirm that the issue is in the tank, even if you have to refuel every half hour.

If there is a foot valve it would have to have blown off to let the air out (I doubt there's a foot valve relief valve), more likely a gunked up screen that is collapsing. Sure wouldn't hurt to drain some fuel to check for water if you can thaw it out enough.

 

[rooferdave]

with all the methel hydrate we put in and ran a salamander near it for a few hours the ice is all gone for sure, we also put a rod in the tank and moved it about to confirm ice is gone

 

[Delmer]

Did you get water out of the tank then? Does the fuel intake come out of the top of the tank and can you get at it?

If it was me, I'd either hang a temporary tank somewhere, or at least drain all the old fuel, (look up "suckbucket" on here) and add all new fuel rather than keep trying to deal with whatever is in there (the orange gunk)

 

[rooferdave]

we are going to put a temp fuel line in through the cap and try that as we know the prob is between the tank and the primary filter, as I have put 300 litres in it in the last month the diesel should be ok... if this works all we can do is run a fuel line off the drain plug in the bottom of the tank (2" off the bottom) temp until we get a break in the weather and can drain the tank pull it, and take it to the shop for the correct repair. As it is winter and the machine is under contract and on location my options are limited

 

[goel]

That sucks Dave. Think you are going to need it this week or can you get to the weekend when it is supposed to warm up and rain.

Use a temporary tank but again change the filters before you run it off the temp tank. A second change of filters is cheap in the long run.

Definitely drain the main tanks you never know what's in them. I know I just saw a spout (yellow, about a foot long) off a 5 gallon gas can in my backhoe tank. It's not from us, but the previous owner.

 

[Delmer]

Maybe put a large diameter (1/2") pickup tube through the cap and run it into a spin on filter base, then reduce down to go to the stock filters. Then you throw out a cheap filter with the big gunk, and save your better filters for the small bits.

Or get a screen (ag sprayer or graco painter part) and a compression spring inside of it and put that on the end of the pickup tube.

 

[>HevyIndsMFGng<]

Hi Dave,

In regards to your first problem (fuel problem), it sounds like water got into the fuel tank and blocked the fuel pickup line that runs to the lift pump. Even though it will clear up with diesel 911, i would definitely suggest draining the entire fuel tank when you start the other major repairs. You can add as much diesel fuel in as you like, but that won't fully cycle all of the water out of the system even though you added the methyl hydrate. Since water is heavier than diesel, and since the fuel pickup line is at the bottom of the tank, the rest of the water that isn't mixed into the fuel will still sit on the bottom, and will continue to freeze. If you can't keep adding loads of 911 all winter you're either going to have to reposition a new fuel pickup line towards the top of the tank or drain the tank completely. Of course, putting a fuel line in at a higher level will cause you to refill the tank at a higher frequency since the pickup line will only empty out the tank to what would normally be half-full or so.

 

[goel]

Dave. Any updates. The storm starts tomorrow and it looks like you will need her.