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MF 50 Industrial Loader/Backhoe questions
- Thread starter Dan07
- Start date
Hi, 87redsixer,
I just bought a MF 50A and I am looking for the operators manual. I find the MF 50B manual but the backhoe is a little different.
Would it be possible for you to please send me a scanned copy of the MF 50A operators manual.
Thank you very much
I just bought a MF 50A and I am looking for the operators manual. I find the MF 50B manual but the backhoe is a little different.
Would it be possible for you to please send me a scanned copy of the MF 50A operators manual.
Thank you very much
87redsixer
New Member
Hi guys I'm new to this form so not quite sure if posting in the right section. I have a 1973 Massey Ferguson 50 industrial tractor (MF50 or MF50a). It's equipped with a back hoe. The tractor starts right up. But wether on or off the steering spins freely. I have already changed the power steering pump which is ran by the timing gears and no change. I have disassembled the steering valve and inspected it the plunger showed no signs of any scaring so I cleaned and lubricated it and assembled everything back together. Still no change. I opened the hydraulic lines that go to the steering cylinders and no pressure in either lines. I'm thinking the only thing left is the obital valve which is really pricey. So I want to be sure before I go ahead and replace it. Any input will be greatly appreciated! I'm unfamiliar with this hydrostatic steering setup. If anyone can explain how exactly this setup works if appropriate it as well!! Thanks!
Mike Knap
Member
I have the same tractor. did you ever resolve your problem? Mike
Steve Best
Active Member
I have just bought a MF Backhoe. Registration tells me it is a 1971 (that may not be accurate) and the previous owner told me it was a MF50A. Serial is 9A110504 and the loader is model 300 serial 1196003744, fairly close to some of the other numbers previous. It has the 4spd dual pedal "instant reverse" transmission.
My problem is brakes. I have a single hydraulic pedal on the left front of the steering wheel and dual mechanical pedals to the left rear. None of the AGCO parts manuals show the single hydraulic Master cylinder. Do you know what model this would be?
My problem is brakes. I have a single hydraulic pedal on the left front of the steering wheel and dual mechanical pedals to the left rear. None of the AGCO parts manuals show the single hydraulic Master cylinder. Do you know what model this would be?
Mike Knap
Member
"I have a single hydraulic pedal on the left front of the steering wheel and dual mechanical pedals to the left rear."
On instant reverse models, it has right and left hand brakes on the left hand side of steering wheel. they can be operated independently as turning brakes. Without a photo I can't understand what you have.
Without a pic I'm guessing.
Do you mean you have a master cylinder that controls both brakes hydraulically? Nothing power or driven off the engine hydraulics, just a typical master cylinder with a slave cylinder at each brake? I believe I saw that on a 304, not a 50, maybe it was an option?
What is the problem besides no brakes? Do you actually want to get those brakes working? Do the individual mechanical pedals have any effect right now?
Do you mean you have a master cylinder that controls both brakes hydraulically? Nothing power or driven off the engine hydraulics, just a typical master cylinder with a slave cylinder at each brake? I believe I saw that on a 304, not a 50, maybe it was an option?
What is the problem besides no brakes? Do you actually want to get those brakes working? Do the individual mechanical pedals have any effect right now?
Steve Best
Active Member
Yes, as well as the 2 mechanical pedals under the seat, there is a single pedal to the front that goes to a single hydraulic master cylinder (which I cannot find in any of the parts catalogs) and the axle has the internal wet disks and is built for the 1676387M92 slave cylinders. It all looks very OEM.
So far this is the only picture I have, I'll take more.
Steve Best
Active Member
Mike, Delmer, I have photos. Here is my brake set up:
The seat is pushed back to get a good photo of the floor and pedals. The two rear pedals are independent mechanical and the front single pedal is to a single hydraulic cylinder (which I will show below). Other side of the cab (front) is the instant reverse forward/reverse pedals. Here is the single brake master cylinder that I cannot find a replacement for:
The line to the slave cylinders is off at the moment, as are the slave cylinders. one was mounted above the spring at the far right side of the photo. I have ordered new slave cylinders. These where totally seized. I was able to free up the master cylinder and filled it with mineral oil on a recommendation. I was told mineral oil (ATF or light hydraulic) fights corrosion better and the seals are made for either. Good idea?
I am told that the serial number 9A110504 is for a MF150A. I picked up an operator's manual for a MF150A and it shows TWO front hydraulic brake pedals. My local dealer's fische shows no hydraulic brakes on this model.
My questions are:
1) Is this a MF150A so I can order the right parts
2) What is the part number for the brake master cylinder
3) could/should I convert it to dual hydraulic brake pedals? What parts to use?
4) Is it a good idea to run mineral oil instead of brake fluid?
5) any idea what model of backhoe this is for ordering parts, especially rotation cylinder rebuild?
The seat is pushed back to get a good photo of the floor and pedals. The two rear pedals are independent mechanical and the front single pedal is to a single hydraulic cylinder (which I will show below). Other side of the cab (front) is the instant reverse forward/reverse pedals. Here is the single brake master cylinder that I cannot find a replacement for:
The line to the slave cylinders is off at the moment, as are the slave cylinders. one was mounted above the spring at the far right side of the photo. I have ordered new slave cylinders. These where totally seized. I was able to free up the master cylinder and filled it with mineral oil on a recommendation. I was told mineral oil (ATF or light hydraulic) fights corrosion better and the seals are made for either. Good idea?
I am told that the serial number 9A110504 is for a MF150A. I picked up an operator's manual for a MF150A and it shows TWO front hydraulic brake pedals. My local dealer's fische shows no hydraulic brakes on this model.
My questions are:
1) Is this a MF150A so I can order the right parts
2) What is the part number for the brake master cylinder
3) could/should I convert it to dual hydraulic brake pedals? What parts to use?
4) Is it a good idea to run mineral oil instead of brake fluid?
5) any idea what model of backhoe this is for ordering parts, especially rotation cylinder rebuild?
I have the exact same master cylinder somewhere, also rusted up and leaking.
I'm not sure on the oil vs brake fluid, I can't argue with that logic. I'd try to find seals for the master cylinder you have. Most likely it's a standard bore and won't be too hard to find seals, you just have to DIG, and be prepared to substitute.
That sure would be nice to have dual hydraulic brakes, but I suspect it would have been easier to buy a backhoe that had them to start with. Most backhoes that old are lucky to have two functional mechanical brakes...
What do you need on the swing motor? I'd say you're going to need to match it up with parts drawings to know for sure what parts it will take.
I'm not sure on the oil vs brake fluid, I can't argue with that logic. I'd try to find seals for the master cylinder you have. Most likely it's a standard bore and won't be too hard to find seals, you just have to DIG, and be prepared to substitute.
That sure would be nice to have dual hydraulic brakes, but I suspect it would have been easier to buy a backhoe that had them to start with. Most backhoes that old are lucky to have two functional mechanical brakes...
What do you need on the swing motor? I'd say you're going to need to match it up with parts drawings to know for sure what parts it will take.
Steve Best
Active Member
Hey Delmer, it is and odd mounting. Most master cylinders mount from the front, not those two top bolts.
If I could find another I could twin them side by side and just run each to each slave cylinder.
Pedals would be easy to gear up using the original as a pattern.
I'd prefer to use common MF or generic Master Cylinders if I could find one.
I have motorcycles that use mineral oil for brakes and clutch and very pleased with their life and operation.
Water will collect in the low spots but they tend to repel water better to begin with, especially when submerged.
Previous owner was using brake fluid. New slaves can run either but I don't know what this master cylinder is.
Earlier I called it a MF150A, I meant to say MF50A. I'm a new guy...
Last edited:
Steve Best
Active Member
Swing cylinder leaks and is a known weak point for these machines. I'm told the backhoe is a MF54 but the tag is missing.
I'd like to find a source for seals or rebuild of the swing cylinder in case it fails or the leaks get worse.
An old car enthusiast gave me some help on the brake master cylinder.
He said it was a very common design in the 1950's and 60's. Chev truck, AMC and even Jeep CJ5 up until late 60's.
All of them are 3" mounting bolt spacing, 1.25" from rod. An example is AC DELCO 18M932
Totally interchangeable and very common and cheap. Wilwood even makes a direct replacement for Hot Rods.
Problem is the bore diameter. Originals were from 5/8" to 1.25" depending on application. 1" bore was very common.
The slave cylinders are the same deal, many bore diameters. I ordered the original for the tractor but don't know the bore.
Running dual master cylinders generally requires a smaller bore than a single. These are cheap enough to experiment.
All the new replacement cylinders specify DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, no mention of mineral oil, so may need to rethink my fluid.
Just waiting for my slave cylinders to arrive...
This site has been a wealth of information for me. I am hoping this brake information is a help to others as well.
I'd like to find a source for seals or rebuild of the swing cylinder in case it fails or the leaks get worse.
An old car enthusiast gave me some help on the brake master cylinder.
He said it was a very common design in the 1950's and 60's. Chev truck, AMC and even Jeep CJ5 up until late 60's.
All of them are 3" mounting bolt spacing, 1.25" from rod. An example is AC DELCO 18M932
Totally interchangeable and very common and cheap. Wilwood even makes a direct replacement for Hot Rods.
Problem is the bore diameter. Originals were from 5/8" to 1.25" depending on application. 1" bore was very common.
The slave cylinders are the same deal, many bore diameters. I ordered the original for the tractor but don't know the bore.
Running dual master cylinders generally requires a smaller bore than a single. These are cheap enough to experiment.
All the new replacement cylinders specify DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, no mention of mineral oil, so may need to rethink my fluid.
Just waiting for my slave cylinders to arrive...
This site has been a wealth of information for me. I am hoping this brake information is a help to others as well.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
If an MF dealer can't get maybe try Minnpar for the seals for the rotary cylinder but there is a post from a few years ago where someone had bought the last swing motor they had and I don't think had any more parts. The rotary cylinder is made by Cessna. I have a similar style rotary swing cylinder on my Cat backhoe but is from Cat. It was leaking because the shaft was worn. It was repaired by metalizing (spray welding). Luckily the vanes and seals inside were still good as Cat said to basically check if a dealer may have stock. The seals for the end caps and shaft were still available. It cost me about $1300 to have a shop repair it. It wasn't something I wanted to try and tackle. The shop had never seen one before but had all the tools and experienced hyd. technicians. Nige provided me with some service info from Cat. JD also used rotary swing cylinders. You could get lucky as apparently it is common for just the large O-rings on the end caps to leak. Here's some pertinent info for you.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/149575-massey-ferguson-mf-54-backhoe.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums.../368232-wtb-cessna-rotary-cylinder-parts.html
https://www.urparts.com/index.cfm/page/enquiries/enquiryId/151041/
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/149575-massey-ferguson-mf-54-backhoe.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums.../368232-wtb-cessna-rotary-cylinder-parts.html
https://www.urparts.com/index.cfm/page/enquiries/enquiryId/151041/
jeff birkle
Member
Hello all,
I bought a 1974 ~MF50??? Loader-backhoe
Model # MF54
Serial # 1409007488
(If anyone knows the exact model so I can look for a manual)
that had all weak hydraulics but everything moved. I assumed it was pump related. I took the pump apart and found the front housing was warn on the driven side and the previous owner tried to repair it by putting in some bronze thrust washers. The washers where not the correct size and left a gap that was .085" x ~.200". Being a machinist I made a better thrust washer with .002" clearance and re-installed it. The pump should have had a positive effect however I started the machine and unfortunately the hydraulics where worse. The loader barely worked and the Backhoe section was non operational. I put a gauge on the loader circuit and am only getting ~400PSI. I took the whole front control section apart and cleaned and checked for any problems and checked the hoe section for broken relief valves but I cant find anything wrong. I don't know what the previous owners have done so I am at a guessing game.
I have checked the supply side for leaks and replaced the suction hose, and all is good.
I did a flow test into a bucket, and without any pressure it was ~20Ltr in about 10seconds at idle.
In regards to the loader and hoe control oil zigzag (neutral) circuit sections. If there are two control sections, is the first loader oil zigzag circuit section blocked or have a pressure relief valve so the rear hoe has oil?
My next step is to block the hoe section and retest the loader section.
If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
Thanx
I bought a 1974 ~MF50??? Loader-backhoe
Model # MF54
Serial # 1409007488
(If anyone knows the exact model so I can look for a manual)
that had all weak hydraulics but everything moved. I assumed it was pump related. I took the pump apart and found the front housing was warn on the driven side and the previous owner tried to repair it by putting in some bronze thrust washers. The washers where not the correct size and left a gap that was .085" x ~.200". Being a machinist I made a better thrust washer with .002" clearance and re-installed it. The pump should have had a positive effect however I started the machine and unfortunately the hydraulics where worse. The loader barely worked and the Backhoe section was non operational. I put a gauge on the loader circuit and am only getting ~400PSI. I took the whole front control section apart and cleaned and checked for any problems and checked the hoe section for broken relief valves but I cant find anything wrong. I don't know what the previous owners have done so I am at a guessing game.
I have checked the supply side for leaks and replaced the suction hose, and all is good.
I did a flow test into a bucket, and without any pressure it was ~20Ltr in about 10seconds at idle.
In regards to the loader and hoe control oil zigzag (neutral) circuit sections. If there are two control sections, is the first loader oil zigzag circuit section blocked or have a pressure relief valve so the rear hoe has oil?
My next step is to block the hoe section and retest the loader section.
If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
Thanx
Attachments
Steve Best
Active Member
Jeff, that MF54 is the backhoe (only) model, as is the serial number you gave.
It will require a separate repair manual, as will the 300 loader, which has its own serial tag too.
The tractor serial will be right in front of the shifters, low on the dash.
My 1971(?) serial was 9A110504, tag and its rivets barely visible in this photo:
The 1964 CJ5 Jeep master cylinder is working fine.
I received the wrong slave cylinders. Wrong line size and no bleeders but U have them working. Hydraulic brake works well.
How was your pump spline and shaft mounts? Any more picts?
It will require a separate repair manual, as will the 300 loader, which has its own serial tag too.
The tractor serial will be right in front of the shifters, low on the dash.
My 1971(?) serial was 9A110504, tag and its rivets barely visible in this photo:
The 1964 CJ5 Jeep master cylinder is working fine.
I received the wrong slave cylinders. Wrong line size and no bleeders but U have them working. Hydraulic brake works well.
How was your pump spline and shaft mounts? Any more picts?
jeff birkle
Member
Hi Steve,
Thanks. I'll send more pics next time there.
The spline is warn and I have a new coupler to replace the warn coupler and will replace the pump when I have everything sorted out.
Funny thing, the hydraulics work now but not sure what I did as i only checked and cleaned parts.
Thanks. I'll send more pics next time there.
The spline is warn and I have a new coupler to replace the warn coupler and will replace the pump when I have everything sorted out.
Funny thing, the hydraulics work now but not sure what I did as i only checked and cleaned parts.
You're on the right track, the coupler is a standard spline and easy to get. The only caution is to keep the end of your coupler away from the end of the worn spot, either give it clearance so it doesn't engage that worn spot, or make the coupler longer and only engaging the non worn splines. You don't want the coupler riding on that transition and putting axial pressure against the pump shaft.
I wouldn't worry about those splines, grease them up, take apart to clean and regrease in a year (two bolts and the hoses stay connected, right?), and forget about it until failure. This machine should never be involved in safety sensitive work (like lifting over people) and this pump shaft won't decrease the reliability one bit.
I wouldn't worry about those splines, grease them up, take apart to clean and regrease in a year (two bolts and the hoses stay connected, right?), and forget about it until failure. This machine should never be involved in safety sensitive work (like lifting over people) and this pump shaft won't decrease the reliability one bit.