McAninch pull type scrapers

[$maker]

how come yall are wearing out those 11's for why not use scrapers????????????????

 

[AtlasRob]

how come yall are wearing out those 11's for why not use scrapers????????????????

That tells me you havent read the thread from the start Try it its very informative.
I assume somebody requested certain pictures to be removed, pity. :drinkup

 

[blink]

test

 

[Deas Plant]

On Using Scrapers.

Hi, $Maker.
In case you hadn't noticed, those strange box-like thingies on wheels behind the D11's ARE scrapers. They just happen to be drawn or towed scrapers, which require a separate tractor to pull them and control them, instead of having the prime mover/tractor integral with/attached to/part of the scraper. They also don't rush about at high speed, a fact which may have coloured your perception of their efficiency and their ability to move dirt.

The company which owns these scrapers has been around for a while now and is one of the larger, better known and more respected companies in their particular field. I'm told they have a large and very well-equipped workshop and are one of the very few companies who are entrusted to do Cat scheduled servicing themselves, on their own machines. Could it be that they are doing something, or maybe even several somethings, right?

I need another nanna nap. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[$maker]

thanks for the info but im a lil conserned when people
confuse a scraper with a pan. this tells me some things up front. there are many ways to move dirt this is a fact, but another fact is effeciency and profeicency are too different things. the method this company is using im gonna say is profecient. just judging by the facts you have stated and im not knocking anyone who finds their own nitch and can make it work. im just voicing my opinion and the concensis of 5 generations of equipment operation. " a self propelled scraper is the most effencient way of moving dirt if conditions so exist to operate them" kudos to this company for their accomplishments but in my opinion theres a lot of good crawlers being wasted.......

 

[Deas Plant]

Yer entitled.

Hi, $Maker.
I'd be interested to hear what it tells you up front when someone confuses a 'scraper' with a 'pan'. Please feel free to share. I've got a pretty thick skin.

Let's not get into semantics here. Local names regardless, a SCRAPER is a scraper, whether it has a 2-wheeled integral prime mover, a 4-wheeled integral prime mover, or a separate tractor up front pulling a drawn scraper in one form or another, or even multiples thereof. They were scrapers back when R. G. LeTourneau was developing them and they are scrapers now - 'cos they take a scraping from the earth and collect it in a bowl for transport to some other place, where they dump it one way or another.

Or are you going to tell us all that R. G. didn't know what he was talking about and should have called all his DRAWN scrapers 'pans'?

You can think what you like about the way McAninch do their work and yer entitled to think it. I suspect that you might find their annual financial report interesting reading - if you can get hold of a copy. And, as I mentioned earlier, they have been around for a while now. How's YOUR earthmoving business going?

Just my 0.02.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

$maker

Not to get a battle started, as we are here to learn, and see how things are done different in other parts of the world due to the local conditions that need to be overcame. I think the key here is what you said quote" a self propelled scraper is the most effencient way of moving dirt if conditions so exist to operate them" I think Mccainich has got to where they are by chosing jobs that their equipment excells at.
Such as one of the posts where they came in, completed the job, and left all while a competitor with a job right next to them waited for the ground to dry enough to run his iron.
Now, I won't argue against a self propelled scraper, ans I have 18 of them, but there are many places I have found myself wishing for a set up like theirs, at least to supplement what we already have and work in bad ground conditions.

 

[AtlasRob]

" a self propelled scraper is the most effencient way of moving dirt if conditions so exist to operate them" .

And if those conditions dont exist :beatsme guess you have to find another way of doing it

Thats probably why they are wearing out those tractors you seem so concerned about, I bet you've got a great big pile of muck that you'd just love to attack with one of them tractors with a blade on it. Can I come play too

 

[Buckethead]

thanks for the info but im a lil conserned when people
confuse a scraper with a pan. this tells me some things up front. there are many ways to move dirt this is a fact, but another fact is effeciency and profeicency are too different things. the method this company is using im gonna say is profecient. just judging by the facts you have stated and im not knocking anyone who finds their own nitch and can make it work. im just voicing my opinion and the concensis of 5 generations of equipment operation. " a self propelled scraper is the most effencient way of moving dirt if conditions so exist to operate them" kudos to this company for their accomplishments but in my opinion theres a lot of good crawlers being wasted.......

Around here the words "scraper" and "pan" mean the same thing. Other parts of the country they look at you funny when you use the word "pan". People from different places have different names for machines. The important words in your post are "if conditions so exist to operate them." I have observed tractor drawn pans pulled with D8s and they worked in places like mud, wet garbage dumps, and steep slopes that I wouldn't try a self propelled scraper.

 

[AtlasRob]

Around here the words "scraper" and "pan" mean the same thing. Other parts of the country they look at you funny when you use the word "pan". People from different places have different names for machines. .

Very true, I'm sure a couple of UK users will correct me but to my knowledge they are a tractor & box over here. Never come across a "pan" except for cooking things in, until I started playing with this infernet thingy

 

[tctractors]

Box-Pan

As AtlasRob has already said in the U.K. the turm is Tractor+ Box or Tractor+Scraper Box, the Ideal distance to run max. on yardage (measured work) and make a few £££ is about 800ft, that is on the long run, longer distance work that need the traction effort of a tractor pulled Scraper would be on a Day work rate, the longest hauls I have done have been nearly 3 loads an Hour with a D8K hooked up to a 463 Box, the day seemed like a Month.

tctractors

 

[rumbles]

G,day....it's all horses for courses. The last time that I operated a dozer/scraper combo was preparing the site for the construction of the Thomson River Dam. The country there is so steep that you could not walk a dozer straight up the hills by themselves less alone with a tincan in tow. We had a series of switchbacks setup leading us to the top of the cut. At the switchback you would turn the dozer then drag the scraper along the side of the hill untill it came up onto the haulroad. We were building roads for the the rubber tyred equipment to come and move some serious fill ( dam wall was 500 feet high when finished ). As for time of haul, on one cut and fill you were lucky if you could get 3 loads an hour. This was with D6 and double PCU cable operated scrapers and hydraulic bull blade.
The first machine that I ever operated was an old dry clutch D7 with scraper in tow ( about 16 at time ) and got tossed off the track a few of times when crank starting pilot motor ( I was a slow learner ).

 

[DPete]

I might as well enter this discussion We call the combo a cat & can here, as far as I'm concerned it is one of the most versitile machines on the planet. This is the first year since 1987 I have not owned one and only because I was offered a trade that was to good to pass up. Operators here on the west coast just snicker at it but the truth is it can do what otherwise would require articulated trucks, a big hoe to load and another machine or two in the fill. Not to mention we could unhook the scraper and hook to the dozer, pull a sheepsfoot, disc or whatever else might need pulling. Any time you can multi task a machine it's $$ in the bank. I'll bet it won't be long until we miss it, here's a farewell pic.

 

[RKO]

Scraper?pan

thanks for the info but im a lil conserned when people
confuse a scraper with a pan. this tells me some things up front. there are many ways to move dirt this is a fact, but another fact is effeciency and profeicency are too different things. the method this company is using im gonna say is profecient. just judging by the facts you have stated and im not knocking anyone who finds their own nitch and can make it work. im just voicing my opinion and the concensis of 5 generations of equipment operation. " a self propelled scraper is the most effencient way of moving dirt if conditions so exist to operate them" kudos to this company for their accomplishments but in my opinion theres a lot of good crawlers being wasted.......

If you have five generations of "equipment operations" you would know a scraper, pan and box are all the same thing. They are just called different things in different parts of the world.
Also I would like to see you run a scraper in the conditions they run a Dozer pulling a scraper. They will be done with the job and paid and you will be still trying to get your first self propelled scraper unstuck. I have work with and seen them work on many jobs and they will make a self propelled scraper look out dated.
In your "five generations of equipment operation" have you ever ran a Dozer/scraper? or operated in central Iowa? or a lagoon? Dozers/scrapers are efficient in these and many other operations.
I have owned and operated self propelled scrapers and Dozer/tractor scrapers and yes there is a place for a self propelled scraper but I run Dozer/tractor scrapers and they are very efficient and proficient.

 

[alan627b]

RKO is right on, in Nebraska and even more so in Iowa, this can be the only tool for the job when we have wet years. Most of Iowa was underwater a good part of last year! Big Mac knows their stuff, they may not travel fast but they are always on the move. A day when it rains may stop an entire rubber tired fleet, but it doesn't stop them very often.
I still wonder how they make it pay with undercarriage costing what it does. I have heard from the grapevine that they took a beating on those jobs in Missouri. You kick a dirt clod and run into rock down there!
I watched a couple of jobs they did here in Omaha, A D9 with a 631 pan was making better time than a 627 would have, due to the 25% moisture content on this job. Our 627's would have been wide open in 2nd for 5 minutes in this muck, those 9's just strode right over it. And didn't tear the job up as bad to boot. Works for them anyway!
Roly D8K has a whole fleet of D8K's and converted 463's in England, and it works for him for the same reasons.

Register and check them out here...http://www.classicmachinery.net/forum/
Several 100 pics found there, and more all the time.
Link to the post, but the pics won't show if you aren't logged in.
http://www.classicmachinery.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=552
alan627b

It works for them.

 

[D6 Merv]

Down here at the bottom of the world, there called tractors and scoops, still the same horse. And definetly still has a place.
One man can load carry dump spread and grade all with the one machine.A really good operator can even cut batters with the draft arms.
Yes old technology but if it works why change it.
The problem with the dump truck and digger combo is that each depends on the other, and when one stops the whole operation can stop.
The setup works for me and I can just unhook it pin the rippers or winch back on the dozer and away it goes on another job.
Just MHO and it makes $ for me
Cheers Merv :drinkup

 

[AtlasRob]

The setup works for me and I can just unhook it pin the rippers or winch back on the dozer and away it goes on another job.
Just MHO and it makes $ for me

Great pics Merv thanks for putting them up, I dont think of a D6 with a box, looks a big box too. :cool2

 

[RKO]

$maker
I can tell you are not informed about scrapers, as the older self propelled Cat scrapers were four wheel tractors with pull scrapers behind. Just like today. You could remove the scraper and pull a; Disc, sheep foot, dump wagon, just to name a few. People have just refined this and using Steel/rubber track tractors instead of the old DW wheel tractors.
I worked with McAninch on a shopping mall job, they were to do the ruff grading and another company was to do the finish grading. McAninch ended up doing the whole job because the other company could not do the finish work with "Your self propelled 615 and 627 scrapers".
Dirt in many parts of the country will not support the weight or give traction to wheeled machines. I learned many things over the years of doing this type of work all over the US, is look at how other people are doing things and learn from it. I not saying it's wrong to change, but take what is working and improve on it.
My Grand Mother always said "you can't learn some thing new when you are talking, because you are hearing what you already know"

 

[AtlasRob]

"you can't learn some thing new when you are talking, because you are hearing what you already know"

:cool2 :notworthy

 

[D6 Merv]

Yes RKO you hit the nail on the head, I got told 30yrs ago
"Boy you havn,t got enough time in your life to make all the mistakes yourself, try and learn from other peoples mistakes, theres always a better way of doing things; and a dumber; try and sort them out yourself"
Atlas Rob, the scoop made it all the way here from your backyard its a Birtley 70 that was converted to hydraulic, and with the sideboards holds 14yds. takes me about a minute to load usually in heavy clay, downhill on that job 30 seconds. A D7G probably would be better, but sometimes you just gotta do it with what you got.
Some more pics. Merv:drinkup