Lost the pan on an HI-412

[Homer Dokes]

Ok guys... been busy adding to dozers and also a play by play of our development on here... seems only fitting I get into the scraper threads.

Today we lost the pan from the tracks on our International Harvester 412 scraper. Problem is... we lost it with a full load AND... my approach was to empty as much as possible from the bowl... it's all clay in it right now... remove the rollers from the pan itself... disconnect the retract arms from the rear... and back up the scraper over the pan so we could get both the pan (using forks on the skidsteer) and the scraper to flat ground where we could reassemble the lot back together. Now the REAL problem.... each roller has two 3/4" bolts holding the roller plate to the pan. When trying to remove the first two bolts from the 1st roller I broke both bolts off in the pan. I am really gun shy on the remaining 6 bolts as I don't want to break them off as well.

My thought process is once we have the pan pulled out (hopefully we can) from under the scraper we can take the pan up to the shop and put heat to the bolts to hopefully get them out in one piece. In the mean time I have to extract the two broken bolts off the one roller and re-tap the holes which at this stage I am certain will require drilling out the bolt then re-taping.

Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations, guidance or words of encouragement? We are dead in the water on our 3 acre pond at the moment as a result and winter is working on setting in.

 

[Welder Dave]

Best way to remove broken bolts is to weld a nut on them. The heat from welding expands the bolt and then shrinks it on cooling. You might have to do it a couple times but it saves the threads so you can just clean them up with a tap.

 

[Tones]

Been thinking about the dilemma you have here. I don't think sliding the floor out were it is is a good idea, it will have the ram attached in the centre. I think getting a chain underneath the floor and hooking it to the bowl so it can be moved to a better location would have to be a method. Holding it with the bowl up will help facilitate the repair

 

[Homer Dokes]

Best way to remove broken bolts is to weld a nut on them

Agreed. That was a conclusion I came to this late afternoon. Picked up replacement bolts. We were able to empty the pan and actually move the entire scraper backwards (dragging the pan by the control arms) to a better area to work on it. Have a plan of attack.....

1st is to get the dirt from above the pan out. (done)
2nd is to expose enough of the passenger side (right) pan to put two bottle jacks under it. (ready)
3rd is to try the welding a nut to the broken off bolts and see if the heat/cooling breaks them loose. Then take PB Blaster and heat (oxy/acetylene tanks) to the two unbroken bolts on the 2nd roller on the same side to loosen them up.
4th is to use skid steer forks on the left side to lift the pan rollers back into the track.
5th is to jack up right side till the pan is high enough to put the rollers back on.

If all goes according to Hoyle I ought to be back in business by noon tomorrow don't ya think?

I went and looked at an IH E200 this evening. Can't recall if the E200 came after or before the 412 but I think it was after? Guy wants $11,000 OBO. Tires are in really bad shape. I payed $6,000 for my IH412 and it is in a lot better shape (tires are like new) than the one the guy is asking. Figured I would give him a call and ask what his bottom dollar might be. If I could have two of these going the ripper I picked up will keep up with them easily. Got 60,000 cubic yards of dirt/clay to move on this project. 30,000 of that is for the retention pond alone.

 

[bam1968]

I'm pretty sure the 412 came after the E200.

 

[Homer Dokes]

'm pretty sure the 412 came after the E200.

It did. Researched it... the E211 came after the E200 and the 412 was the next transition from the E211.

 

[Welder Dave]

Price out new tires and the cost to change them out. Then deduct about 75% of that off the price. The tires could be like an older dozer that needed new tracks. Too expensive and not worth buying.

 

[chidog]

Maybe not so good for those bolts but a nice rusted bolt deal is, an induction heater and aways worth a try. Broke off bolts can try the welding deal, if not much luck head to your machine shop.

 

[Homer Dokes]

So... I missed my guesstimate mark by 31 minutes. Had the scraper back up and running at noon:31. Everything worked perfectly.

 

[Homer Dokes]

Price out new tires and the cost to change them out. Then deduct about 75% of that off the price. The tires could be like an older dozer that needed new tracks. Too expensive and not worth buying.

So I meet with the guy on the E200 at 10am in the morning. He already reduced the starting point of negotiations from $11,000 to $6,000. Hoping to get him to go a couple thousand less given I will have to get replacement tires. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Homer Dokes]

an induction heater and aways worth a try

Ya know... I keep forgetting about that. I have a whole set of induction heaters for different applications and I keep spacing that I have them. Problem is... they need lectricity to operate... and I have no currant bushes anywhere on the property.

I have found that my 5000 watt generator is useless for a mig welder. Time to break the 13,000 watt one out.

 

[Tones]

The E200 goes real well with a Cat 3208na engine. just sayin.

 

[Welder Dave]

Ya know... I keep forgetting about that. I have a whole set of induction heaters for different applications and I keep spacing that I have them. Problem is... they need lectricity to operate... and I have no currant bushes anywhere on the property.

I have found that my 5000 watt generator is useless for a mig welder. Time to break the 13,000 watt one out.

A welder takes a lot of power and needs quite a bit of reserve capacity from a generator. See how many amps or watts your induction heater uses.