Looking for old excavator for farm and could use some advice/recommendations

[needahoe]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum, as you can see I'm in the market for an excavator. I live in southern Ontario, Canada on an old farm/recreation land. I am entertaining the idea of an old excavator purchase, as I have many upcoming projects that will require the use of one. I have contracted out all the jobs until now and it has been adding up (no offense to contractors!). I understand the risks of the purchase, the possibility of breakdown/worn out parts and expensive rebuilds. I try to do most of my own work on equipment that I own (less computer crap needing costly scanners); I already have old relic farm equipment running around here! My question is: in the 20 "ish" ton machine range, what older machines do you think would be the best to consider? I have read about guys who can't get parts due to obsolete inventory, or machines with a ridiculous parts replacement cost. My price range is under the 25k Canadian mark, cheaper is better, ugly doesn't matter, neither does age or its operating speed as long as it works good! It's a long term purchase for my own use, I'm one of those guys who hates getting rid of things. My property consists of gravel, hills, small fields, mixed bush and some swamp. I have looked at a few machines, I won't mention what brands yet(heard bad things about specific models). I am looking forward to hearing your opinion/experiences.
Thanks!

 

[JGibson]

Any C series Link Belt, or D/E series Deere

 

[mitch504]

My choice would be a 215C or D Cat (44,000 lbs)

 

[Shimmy1]

I'm not sure your going to find a 215 for under $25,000 US, much less $25,000 CAN. That being said, that would be about the best older machine for you, and I'm a Case man. 9030 would be fine, but you'd be probably up into that mid $30K range. AND, ones cheap enough for you, trust me, you don't want any part of. $25,000 Canadian right now is only about $20,000 US. That's really not a lot to buy a hoe that size. I would not be scared of a 1080B Case, but they are closer to 50,000 lbs. Dime a dozen 504 engine, pumps only cost about $3000, tough old diggers. But, just my opinion. I'm sure somebody will say I'm nuts, but more than likely they never spent 5,000 hrs in one.

 

[needahoe]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Shimmy1 what is the difference between the case 1080B and the case 1088? I know where there is a 1088 for sale up here. Is the cat 215 similar to the older 225? I have heard mixed reviews about the 225's.
Thanks again

 

[needahoe]

Hi again guys one more question: How many hours are too many hours? I know that's kind of a broad question but there are some machines up here with 15000+ hrs; at that amount should or have certain components been replaced or should have been replaced? Turntables with minor leaks, etc.

 

[maddog]

Why older, why not good used condition? I had an old machine that I really enjoyed running but when it came time to fix it, it would have cost over 30k for parts(that was for what I could even find). Not sure what your exact usage is going to be, but are you limited to that size machine? A newer smaller machine can do the work of some of the older bigger machines. You can also buy a good running older machine and have one thing break, and be poo out of luck trying to get it to move again, then you're stuck with a giant lawn ornament. As far as "name brand" when looking at used machinery "name" is about useless when it comes to how well that particular machine runs. "name" can be helpful when it comes to parts though, so buying an outdated machine with no parts available will be a down fall. Tell us more about what you plan to do with it, that would help a lot towards what you really need? 25k should get you into a dependable used machine that can give MANY hours of work. BUT 25k on a wrong machine could cost you the farm(pun intended)

 

[maddog]

I have looked at a few machines, I won't mention what brands yet(heard bad things about specific models).

You should mention, it would help narrow the search for what you are wanting. I heard bad things about a lot of machines, but in the end many of the bad things I heard were from "knowitalls"(you know the ones, armchairs coaches that didn't have any experience). I laugh because one of those machines brands were the IHI which have become quite popular and dependable.

 

[cuttin edge]

I don't run a hoe much, but like all machines, hours depend on maintainance. What kind of shape is the running gear in. Experienced guys could give you better hints, but look at the chains, and pins. Are the sprockets beefy and new, or worn to a point, rollers worn. How much adjustment is left in the tracks. Does the swing brake work, does it feel worn or rocky when you swing. Are all the boom and bucket pins in good shape. Everything gets worn, but if the bucket is falling off, you won't be fixing that yourself. How worn is the bucket, they can bet pretty thin. Does the engine smoke, is there much blow by. Are there any maintainance records. Good luck

 

[needahoe]

Those are some of the questions I have asked, didn't know about the swing brake thanks for that. Most of the machines I'm looking at have a bit of sag on the tracks, I always check sprockets. I try to get the owners to fire them up cold and watch the machine warm up to operating temp and see if hydraulic speed/pressures change. Maintenance history is another question I like to ask, to see if the owner can prove what they claim. I am not overly experienced with the steel track machines, so It get frustrating when you are looking at a machine and all your hear is praise and justification from the owner, yet what you see or hear may say different. That's why I ask you guys about what to check and what not to worry about.
As for what it will be doing:
House addition (foundation and excavation)
New shed (foundation and excavation)
Excavation from my farm gravel pit to load dump truck
Possibly tile fields
Tree line removals
Road through swamp (excavation and gravel fill again)
Bush trails
This is the next couple years of its life. Which is why I thought a larger "older" machine may be the way to go. I want to stay into a tandem axle trailer, tri axle and oversize costs a lot more to move, none of which I own. There will be times it is on other farms working as well. I'm not against looking at smaller machines, but my experience with the smaller rubber track machines are exactly that: smaller. Long day loading dump trucks with a mini ex and probably spend almost the same moneyon a good machine; if not more. As it said before, I prefer to do my own maintenance and repair, which is why I would like an older machine (little to no computer) that I can source parts for.

 

[Shimmy1]

STAY AWAY FROM 1088. These are very expensive machines to run. Our Case dealer, not only guys in shop, but parts guys and even the manager advised us to stay away. I am not personally familiar with the 88 series, but from what I've been told, the hydraulic system is the worst system ever put on an excavator. Supposedly, its a French design, and runs ridiculously high pressure. The pumps cost more than the machine, and hoses are nonexistent. I believe they have the Cummins engines, but that is where the good stops.

Why older, why not good used condition? I had an old machine that I really enjoyed running but when it came time to fix it, it would have cost over 30k for parts(that was for what I could even find). Not sure what your exact usage is going to be, but are you limited to that size machine? A newer smaller machine can do the work of some of the older bigger machines. You can also buy a good running older machine and have one thing break, and be poo out of luck trying to get it to move again, then you're stuck with a giant lawn ornament. As far as "name brand" when looking at used machinery "name" is about useless when it comes to how well that particular machine runs. "name" can be helpful when it comes to parts though, so buying an outdated machine with no parts available will be a down fall. Tell us more about what you plan to do with it, that would help a lot towards what you really need? 25k should get you into a dependable used machine that can give MANY hours of work. BUT 25k on a wrong machine could cost you the farm(pun intended)

I wanted to post something similar to this last night, but something came up. Thanks, Maddog. Well said the part about the farm. My thoughts exactly.

 

[cuttin edge]

Bigger is not always better. Harder to truck, heavier, burns more fuel, bigger parts to replace. Not sure when they started putting blades on hoe's, but we have a 314 cat, and a Kobelco, can't remember what number, Both have blades, and thumbs and do a ton of work. The kobelco has over 16000hrs on it, Had the under carrage done twice, but has been pretty reliable. Machines of this weight are good on fuel, easier to truck, and can get into tighter spots. I've always been lead to believe that Cat parts were expensive, but Volvo is starting to get up there. Too bad you couldn't rent a few different machines to figure out what suits you best.

 

[Delmer]

"Bigger is not always better" but smaller is not always cheaper, usually more expensive when you're looking in this price range. Remember, there weren't as many small excavators built back in the day as there are now. That's my two cents. I agree, I'd rather own and work on something like this any day compared to something that has all of those components crammed into a smaller space.

https://lacrosse.craigslist.org/hvo/4868912938.html

You mentioned "sag on the tracks", that's adjustable, they can even be shortened when they reach the end of the adjustment. You want to look at how worn/"stretched" the tracks are.

 

[cuttin edge]

That`s a nice looking machine. Looks like it already is a member of a farm family

 

[Shimmy1]

That's cheap. If you look at it, make sure you check the play in the Rotec bearing. And, try and walk it around enough to warm up track motors. Make sure they maintain power.

 

[movindirt]

That one doesn't look like its in too bad of shape, looks like there has been some welding and plating done up by the main stick/boom pin. We bought our 1980 215 a couple of years ago for less than that one listed, it came with a stiff link thumb, manual QC, 3' tooth bucket and 5' smooth bucket, its got around 10k hours on it, it runs good, its not as smooth as a newer machine, buts thats to be expected. One plus with the older Cat excavators is you can always get parts, and most of the time Classic parts are available and they are usually a third to half the price of a regular part. The Classic parts are made to the engineering and quality specs of when the machine was made, the regular priced parts are to todays standards from the way I understand it. For example, the bucket bushings are $52 for a regular part, or $12 for a Classic The only bad part on the 215's is the swing gear assembly, we have had to rebuild ours because of a cracked case. Cat had all the parts to us within a couple days, we had around $3k in parts I think? We just replaced the stuff that was broke. Its a pretty quick machine, it would work fine for a farm machine, it does pretty good on fuel as well.

 

[needahoe]

Thanks for all the heads up guys! Those CAT 215's seem like a really nice machine. I found a 215C not too far from here. Going to call the owner tonight, I have been talking to him through e-mail so far. He said Cat performed an inspection/service on it last fall, everything checked out in regards to pressures etc. That's why I'm calling him he said it would be easier to go through over the phone. Is has a stiff link thumb and 2 buckets. It has 17500 hrs and u/c is at 60% It's listed at $22,000 CAD. I'll get some more details when I talk to him.
Thanks again for all the recommendations, nice to talk to people who work with these machines.
That being said; until it's here in my driveway, I'm still looking

 

[ericscher]

I have a question to go along with the OP's question. There's no right or wrong answer I suppose, I am mainly looking for insight here.


Now, I understand that the OP specifically asked about an excavator and that the specific projects he may have in mind could make a 20 ton excavator exactly the right machine.

Having said that, and this question is for needahoe as well...

Why a 20 ton excavator?

First of all, 40,000 pounds of excavator is a lot of machine.

Second, I live in farm country in Ohio and Ford 555's and Case 580's seem to be real popular as a "swiss army knife" sort of machine.


So....
Why a 20 ton excavator and why not a 555 or 580?

 

[needahoe]

Hi ericscher;

Backhoe's are handy as heck, no doubt about it. I have had both excavators and backhoes working here and hands down, on this property, a backhoe will not get me where I need to go. I have a fair bit of soft ground, it has claimed trucks combines AND 4WD tractors, but not excavators. It has to be on tracks, I need the versatility. I watched the one contractor bury his tri-axle Ford 9000 dump and push it out with his 30 ton machine, easily and without issue. Twice on the same day. And that was in the middle of the field. I don't think the back hoe would walk over the soft ground. I am not bashing them by any means, I considered them too.

Plus I wouldn't be far off what I am planning to spend here for a decent 580 4WD back hoe.

 

[ericscher]

OK, got it. I see your point. Thanks.