Looking for help diagnosing problem

[cb1]

Hello all,
I have a 125C International Power Shift (picture at work) which I use for a 10-40 hours a year clearing land for my apple orchard.
The issue is that it will not move easily for about the first 15 minutes. It moves very slow at first, then slowly improves until it works great. However at times it will stop moving. When it stops moving, while in gear, if you decelerate and then accelerate it does nothing, but if you leave the throttle alone and put the trans in neutral and then back in gear quickly it takes right off. This happens in either forward or reverse.
I bought a couple hundred dollars of manuals for it which are great except they don't address this particular problem. There are pressure checks and I may do them in the near future when the weather warms up.
I have cleaned out the pickup screen and replaced the pressure filter and changed the filter. The manual talks about a "safety filter", which was on "early models" which I can not find. Maybe mine is not a early model.
I will be cleaning or replacing the radiator as the motor gets warm after about 30 minutes, but quickly comes back to 190 when you let it rest for 5 minutes. I also put a new thermostat in it which helped, the bottom was broken off of the old one.
Overall a real nice machine with plenty of power.

Any help would be appreciated,

cb1

 

[Iron Horse]

At the moment , with what you are saying , and the fact the engine gets hot . I'm thinking , cavitated oil in the trans or convertor . The way it comes good when you select neutral and then back into gear may be the trans or convertor getting a gut full of air which is purged when neutral is selected . Are there internal "O" rings showing on the pickup tube in the manual ? Are there external suction hoses that could be sucking air or sucking flat ?

 

[cb1]

Now that I have the manual and can figure out which hoses are which, when I do run it soon, I will be able to check out the hoses. Sounds plausible. How would the engine getting hot heat up the trans/converter? The cooler for the trans is in front of the radiator. Now that I said that, I believe the fan blows forward. Will have to check that out. That could heat up the cooler.....

 

[Iron Horse]

Usually , the heat from the hot oil running through the oil cooler is drawn back through the engine radiator (with suction fan) and causes the engine temp to rise . The fact that the engine temp drops when it is left for a while could indicate hot trans oil being the culprit . The missing bottom half of the thermostat tells me the previous owner had removed it and put the outer ring back in trying to stop the over heating , thinking the thermostat was sticking closed . Do you have a convertor/trans temp gauge on the machine , and is it getting hot ?

 

[cb1]

I believe (will check tomorrow) that if I work it hard, I can put the converter oil temperature gauge in the check range. It too comes back to normal with a break, etc..

 

[bill onthehill]

are your fins on the oil cooler good and clean? this will cut down on the airflow and heat up the oil and engine coolant. they seem to attract dirt between cooler and radiator.

 

[cb1]

I powerwashed and blew out both radiator and cooler and nothing changed. 2 inches of snow this morning. It will be a couple more days until I get to it. I think the easiest (probably most needed) would be to get the radiator cleaned or replaced, then go from there. What about the waterpump as long as I am in there? It is 34 years old....

 

[bill onthehill]

i would make sure you can get another one before tearing it off. some old int. parts are pretty rare these days. might be able to cross it to a farm tractor engine.

 

[willie59]

I powerwashed and blew out both radiator and cooler and nothing changed. 2 inches of snow this morning. It will be a couple more days until I get to it. I think the easiest (probably most needed) would be to get the radiator cleaned or replaced, then go from there. What about the waterpump as long as I am in there? It is 34 years old....

If your going to keep using the machine, I think it's good idea to take the radiator out and have it cleaned, a clogged core can easily be your heating problem. And it's an excellent idea to service the water pump, belts, and any oil leaks on the front of the engine then while they're easy to service. I think you need to check the test ports on your tranny to help diagnose the drive problem. I haven't worked on a 125C, I've worked on a 175B, and if they're similar, there's a manifold under the operators seat and batteries that has the test port connections. Your maunual should tell you what to check. It would be best to be able to connect to the test ports while operating the machine so you can see any pressure changes.

 

[td25c]

Hello all,
I have a 125C International Power Shift (picture at work) which I use for a 10-40 hours a year clearing land for my apple orchard.
The issue is that it will not move easily for about the first 15 minutes. It moves very slow at first, then slowly improves until it works great. However at times it will stop moving. When it stops moving, while in gear, if you decelerate and then accelerate it does nothing, but if you leave the throttle alone and put the trans in neutral and then back in gear quickly it takes right off. This happens in either forward or reverse.
I bought a couple hundred dollars of manuals for it which are great except they don't address this particular problem. There are pressure checks and I may do them in the near future when the weather warms up.
I have cleaned out the pickup screen and replaced the pressure filter and changed the filter. The manual talks about a "safety filter", which was on "early models" which I can not find. Maybe mine is not a early model.
I will be cleaning or replacing the radiator as the motor gets warm after about 30 minutes, but quickly comes back to 190 when you let it rest for 5 minutes. I also put a new thermostat in it which helped, the bottom was broken off of the old one.
Overall a real nice machine with plenty of power.

Any help would be appreciated,

cb1

It sounds like you might have two problems.replacing the radiator is a good idea.The tranny problem sounds like a suction leak in the system.check all hose & pipe on the suction side of the charge pump.It dosent take much of a suction leak to give trouble.My IH td25 has the safety filters ahead of the pump,this could also cause trouble.

 

[willie59]

It sounds like you might have two problems.replacing the radiator is a good idea.The tranny problem sounds like a suction leak in the system.check all hose & pipe on the suction side of the charge pump.It dosent take much of a suction leak to give trouble.My IH td25 has the safety filters ahead of the pump,this could also cause trouble.

If I remember right, from a 175B, isn't that safety filter acutually inside the trans case? The hose/pipe assy that feeds the charge pump is connected to a barb fitting on the front of the tranny case. That barb fitting is on a round plate fastened to the front of tranny case with bolts. Remove bolts, pull plate out of tranny case, and there's the suction filter. At least, that's what I remember.

 

[td25c]

If I remember right, from a 175B, isn't that safety filter acutually inside the trans case? The hose/pipe assy that feeds the charge pump is connected to a barb fitting on the front of the tranny case. That barb fitting is on a round plate fastened to the front of tranny case with bolts. Remove bolts, pull plate out of tranny case, and there's the suction filter. At least, that's what I remember.

I have a customer that runs a IH 175C highlift.Your memory is better than mine on the safety filter ATCOEQUIP.CB1's problem with the 125 highlift sounds like a suction leak to me,what do you think?I allmost forgot ,I have another customer that called me last summer with a complaint that his dresser 100 highlift would not pull itself on the lowboy.After I checked it out ,I found that the torque coverter had a seperate reservior from the rear end.It turned out it was low on oil.2 gallons of tractor fluid ,and he was back in business.

 

[willie59]

I have a customer that runs a IH 175C highlift.Your memory is better than mine on the safety filter ATCOEQUIP.CB1's problem with the 125 highlift sounds like a suction leak to me,what do you think?I allmost forgot ,I have another customer that called me last summer with a complaint that his dresser 100 highlift would not pull itself on the lowboy.After I checked it out ,I found that the torque coverter had a seperate reservior from the rear end.It turned out it was low on oil.2 gallons of tractor fluid ,and he was back in business.

Well, the part I'm describing is part of the suction side of the charge pump. If that filter/strainer becomes clogged the pump will suck air via loose hose connections to pipes leading to pump. Those suction hoses get hard over time from heat, constant heating and cooling over time causes loose hose to pipe connections. Again, I'm talking about a 175B, and we're working on a 125C. I don't know that they're the same, but they may be, as these are IH machines prior to Dresser. And I know the torque converter is the same on the 175B & C. Here's the thing; I finally diagnosed a bad converter on a 175B. Replaced the converter with one from a C model, problem solved. I just can't remember what the drive symptoms were, if it was the same symptoms we're working on here. I wish I could remember. The converter housing on the 175B was a wet housing from normal leakage of the conveter. It had a hose to allow oil to run back to trans housing. A bad converter would produce too much leakage. You take the hose loose from convetor to trans, start engine, and if the hose produced something like more that 2 gpm, you have a bad converter. A converter with excessive leakage can do some screwy things to the drive.

 

[cb1]

Thanks guy's, I will check it out after I do the radiator and let you know what I find out. Another question, do they service the tranny cooler like in a car, as in flush it, or would that help at all?

Thanks again, cb1

 

[willie59]

Thanks guy's, I will check it out after I do the radiator and let you know what I find out. Another question, do they service the tranny cooler like in a car, as in flush it, or would that help at all?

Thanks again, cb1

I don't think you'll have a problem with the tranny cooler, it's nothing like on a car, the quantity of oil and filtration is totally different. Check out your suction strainer filter (if it has one), check you suction hoses for the charge pump (replace if they're hard/stiff), then check your pressure at test ports as your working machine. We'll find a solution to your problem. We're not going to allow a 125C to die.

 

[td25c]

Pull the floor plates on the dozer CB1,an send us close up pics of the tranny.Ill bet we get the problem figuerd out.

 

[cb1]

So this morning I started all of my stuff for the first time this year. I let the 125C idle for a hour, temp stayed at 190. Tried to move it, of course it won't move much if at all. Higher rpms, moves a little not much more. I was mistaken earlier when I said converter temp gauge. It was actually the "Clutch Pressure" gauge that moves into the danger area when it doesn't want to move. The converter temp gauge is fine. I knew where the gauge was located, just not what guage it was. Sorry. So it is the clutch pressure gauge that goes into the danger range. I will look in my manual and see what it says. Any ideas?? Oh, and it started just fine...

 

[cb1]

OK, my service manual says "operating pressure" and also "zero". Would zero be danger?? As in not enough pressure. Thanks, cb1

 

[td25c]

So this morning I started all of my stuff for the first time this year. I let the 125C idle for a hour, temp stayed at 190. Tried to move it, of course it won't move much if at all. Higher rpms, moves a little not much more. I was mistaken earlier when I said converter temp gauge. It was actually the "Clutch Pressure" gauge that moves into the danger area when it doesn't want to move. The converter temp gauge is fine. I knew where the gauge was located, just not what guage it was. Sorry. So it is the clutch pressure gauge that goes into the danger range. I will look in my manual and see what it says. Any ideas?? Oh, and it started just fine...

Check the torque converter fluid level.read post #12.My nieghbor's dresser 100 acted like yours.on the dresser 100 you have to pull the floor plate to get to the dipstick & filler cap.The dresser 100 and your 125 are familly.Ill bet yours is the same.

 

[cb1]

On mine the transmission and torque converter share the same oil (Hy-trans). However you are correct that you need to take the floor plate off to check. I will do that now and let you know what I find....