Mink
Well-Known Member
Nice grooving tool and is not very complicated
-
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Line Boring Systems
- Thread starter Williams Marine
- Start date
OEM's OBSESSION using centering-set-up cones 
Count every wasted step, like slide bar out, remove cone etc.
Eibenstock 4-speed motor: Cmax = 8 to 160rpm; forces using HSS to machine small diameter bores because carbide required speed to survive!
BRS, monkey see, monkeydo.
Count every wasted step, like slide bar out, remove cone etc.
BRS, monkey see, monkey
do.RayF
Senior Member
I often do use cones on bores below 5 inch but the bloke is certainly making a career out of a simple job there.
Although that is a general purpose video its actually a lesson how how not to set up top bores on a bucket. There is not the slightest use in trying to clock up to a worn bore (or any worn bore) Before those bores get due for machining they are going to be 20 to 40 thou out anyway and in practice way more.
The only reliable method to setting up a top bucket bore as in that video is to have a bar though the bottom bores and set the top up true to that. If its not right the loader will chew itself apart.
In the bottom video they say its good for 24 inch diameters with the electric motor. Good luck with that.
On bores bigger than 2.5 inch I almost always use tungsten carbide inserts. I reckon chuck brazed tip in the bin. They would have to be the most expensive tooling you can buy. Get the right grade and right chip breaker design and slash your machining costs to a few bucks a week. You do need horsepower and stability and I'm not sure how they would go on the above equipment.
Although that is a general purpose video its actually a lesson how how not to set up top bores on a bucket. There is not the slightest use in trying to clock up to a worn bore (or any worn bore) Before those bores get due for machining they are going to be 20 to 40 thou out anyway and in practice way more.
The only reliable method to setting up a top bucket bore as in that video is to have a bar though the bottom bores and set the top up true to that. If its not right the loader will chew itself apart.
In the bottom video they say its good for 24 inch diameters with the electric motor. Good luck with that.
On bores bigger than 2.5 inch I almost always use tungsten carbide inserts. I reckon chuck brazed tip in the bin. They would have to be the most expensive tooling you can buy. Get the right grade and right chip breaker design and slash your machining costs to a few bucks a week. You do need horsepower and stability and I'm not sure how they would go on the above equipment.
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ray, simple and to the point.
Hi Ray, Ray and Ray
I knew you would spot setting up on the top inner bores 1st!
Electrics and Worm Geared cutting torque, using Eibenstock Cmax 4:1/3.3hp = 475lbs ft, Hydratight 5:1 unknown (can't calculate torque without knowing worm gear pitch diameter)...BRS-Magtech 6:1 with 2-speed 1.6hp =1044lbs ft (1415Nm) 3.3hp will increase the cutting torque.
Eibenstock motor reduces backlash at the bar (Cmax) from 11.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees (helps ensure uninterrupted cuts improves facing); 20 to 1 turn down ratio and overload protection AND reverse rotation.
Use of 3:1 ratio with Eibenstock revs would be approx 12 to 240rpms / 2:1 ratio 16 to 320rpms.
Electrics cannot compete with hydraulics' turn down ratio = variable rpm range!
A bit of BB5000 redesign, using Timken cup #29620-29688 cone for 60mm bar and #20075 cone for 2.25 bar...hardened-finish honed spindle (Cmax drive key loosens just using 1.6hp Milwaukee)...Gear ratio 2:1...RDU feed screw mount 360 deg rotatable...feed screw slip-in instead screwing. Investment Al-Mag cast cases, grease zerk fittings etc.
Cmax single mount arm okay to 9.75", larger bores require double mount arm. Cutting power IS NOT a issue machining weld built up bores, high gear, max rpm! 1 rough pass, 1 finish pass to 9.75" then 2 rough passes, 1 finish pass.
So RayS, not so simple! If you're using brazed on carbide; green grinding wheels ARE for rough shaping, not sharpening. Diamond wheels are used for sharpening using flood coolant. RayF is totally correct skip ALL 'wasting time @ $2.00+per minute' with brazed on and use throw away inserts. If your set-up is not rigid, neither type of carbide will work without chipping. Carbide can run @ WAY to slow of surface speed; HSS cannot operate @ higher revs and retain a sharp cutting edge. Even at correct revs in long bore you'll often end with a 'tapered bore' caused by edge wear.
Enjoy your' holiday guys
I knew you would spot setting up on the top inner bores 1st!
Electrics and Worm Geared cutting torque, using Eibenstock Cmax 4:1/3.3hp = 475lbs ft, Hydratight 5:1 unknown (can't calculate torque without knowing worm gear pitch diameter)...BRS-Magtech 6:1 with 2-speed 1.6hp =1044lbs ft (1415Nm) 3.3hp will increase the cutting torque.
Eibenstock motor reduces backlash at the bar (Cmax) from 11.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees (helps ensure uninterrupted cuts improves facing); 20 to 1 turn down ratio and overload protection AND reverse rotation.
Use of 3:1 ratio with Eibenstock revs would be approx 12 to 240rpms / 2:1 ratio 16 to 320rpms.
Electrics cannot compete with hydraulics' turn down ratio = variable rpm range!
A bit of BB5000 redesign, using Timken cup #29620-29688 cone for 60mm bar and #20075 cone for 2.25 bar...hardened-finish honed spindle (Cmax drive key loosens just using 1.6hp Milwaukee)...Gear ratio 2:1...RDU feed screw mount 360 deg rotatable...feed screw slip-in instead screwing. Investment Al-Mag cast cases, grease zerk fittings etc.
Cmax single mount arm okay to 9.75", larger bores require double mount arm. Cutting power IS NOT a issue machining weld built up bores, high gear, max rpm! 1 rough pass, 1 finish pass to 9.75" then 2 rough passes, 1 finish pass.
So RayS, not so simple! If you're using brazed on carbide; green grinding wheels ARE for rough shaping, not sharpening. Diamond wheels are used for sharpening using flood coolant. RayF is totally correct skip ALL 'wasting time @ $2.00+per minute' with brazed on and use throw away inserts. If your set-up is not rigid, neither type of carbide will work without chipping. Carbide can run @ WAY to slow of surface speed; HSS cannot operate @ higher revs and retain a sharp cutting edge. Even at correct revs in long bore you'll often end with a 'tapered bore' caused by edge wear.
Enjoy your' holiday guys
Williams Marine
Well-Known Member
Thanks Stan,
Enjoy your holiday too...
Enjoy your holiday too...
a-martinson
New Member
StanRus, would you be so kind as to give me a basic idea what would be required to do this?
MILWAUKEE MOTOR 300/600 rpm (or use product search for different model/speed)
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/4079
click specification, find
Service Parts Lists and download pdf file for your model/serial number...
Modified, remove diamond drill water/threaded adapter, shorten shaft using cut off tool (abrasive wheel) or milling machine (measure your existing motor's shaft length)...machine 1/4" keyway with milling machine.
Where To Buy link...Tool Barn $727.49 current lowest price
Need armature per part list # approx $200.00 +/- depending on where you purchase (try service centers) Motor Housing assembly approx $170.00
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/4079
click specification, find
Service Parts Lists and download pdf file for your model/serial number...
Modified, remove diamond drill water/threaded adapter, shorten shaft using cut off tool (abrasive wheel) or milling machine (measure your existing motor's shaft length)...machine 1/4" keyway with milling machine.
Where To Buy link...Tool Barn $727.49 current lowest price
Need armature per part list # approx $200.00 +/- depending on where you purchase (try service centers) Motor Housing assembly approx $170.00
a-martinson
New Member
Thanks for the info, StanRus.