Line boring buy it or pay for it? (Or... Walking or tumbling down the rabbit hole?)

[jonathanks]

I had typed out this nice detailed post, but it was lost so now I'll just ask the simple question. I have searched the forum, but didn't quite find this discussion (although I could have missed it).

I have some welding, machining, and metallurgy experience, but would not be very efficient at the task and assume that it would take me months to complete... (Note the machine is currently sitting at Boyd Cat in Lexington to get a new idler spring. Decided the wife didn't need the insurance yet...)

Pros:
- Have the equipment to address other repairs that are likely needed.
- Will be sure of the work that is done.
- Looks cost neutral depending on setup (nothing high production or top of the line, could go used, but hard to tell condition with my experience level)

Cons:
- Will take me forever.
- Errors due to inexperience.
- precision of cheaper machines may be difficult to maintain without excessive care in setup and ginger use. (Susceptible to chatter, lack of rigidity, quality of materials, etc.)
- Probably a slew of setup fixturing and measurement tools I've not thought of.

Is there value in buying cheap line and rotary welding equipment that is of similar price to the bucket repair? Or just pay for the work?

 

[Midnightmoon]

What are you trying to fix exactly?

 

[Tones]

jonathanks, good and cheap can't be used in the same sentence as there's no such thing. Cheap will burn you everytime. My 2 cents.

 

[old-iron-habit]

What is the machine downtime, and your time worth? How good is your stick-to-it-energy-level when things don't go perfect and you are required to redo one or more things? Answer these questions to yourself honestly and you will know what path to take. There is an education factor here also that may benefit you in the future. Good luck with whatever path you take. If you do it yourself take us on HEF along for the ride.

 

[Vetech63]

If you do it yourself take us on HEF along for the ride.

I better stock up on liquor and popcorn

 

[Cat977]

You're not telling us what machine it is, or how bad it is, and no Pictures! We have to have Pictures! My welder buddy and I used an inexpensive line borer to finish a quick attach I had made. I left just .025 a side .050 dia. to finish up with line boring. I heated the whole welded assembly to a dull red, wrapped it in K wool and let it cool for a week before line boring. I used a high quality steel from a large pump shaft, it machined (with carbide inserts) and welded well. But it may have been too much for the line bore kit we used. He had used his company's kit a number of times, 4 holes, 1 3/4" dia. X 4”. 2 rows 3' apart. I think a 1 1/4" bar. Guess at 20 hours including setup. You had to do it slowly with patience. Which I never had! It had a hand feed. I did some of the roughing in. He finished all the holes with a almost new carbide tipped tool for each hole. High speed steel wouldn't hold up to the steel I used. To me with the spindly setup, it was misrubble work I kept running into chatter problems. He had just a great feel for the work. Give me something Big and Solid with H.P. and let the chips Fly!
Best of Luck

P.S. What about buying a better used bucket?

 

[jonathanks]

You're not telling us what machine it is, or how bad it is, and no Pictures!

[/QUOTE]
As far as machine (951C 86J3065), I posted pics and talked a bit about it a few years ago here:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/a-951c-i-have-a-clue-i-do-not.72863/#post-764412

Not against a used bucket, just haven't run across one to investigate.

jonathanks, good and cheap can't be used in the same sentence as there's no such thing. Cheap will burn you everytime. My 2 cents.

Rule of three, You can do cheap, fast, and well, but you can only do 2 or the 3 on any given project. But your point is taken, there is a point where too cheap cannot be made up with time.

What are you trying to fix exactly?

Had all that in the first post I lost... Pin bores, have probably quarter inch of slop in the bucket bosses. The machine side isn't as bad, but still a bit rough. You can see somewhat in the pics I put in the post I referred to above.

What is the machine downtime, and your time worth? How good is your stick-to-it-energy-level when things don't go perfect and you are required to redo one or more things? A

Therein lies the question. As this is a farm machine, and has been largely sitting for 4 years while I try to "get to it," the downtime despite my occasional sense of urgency, can't be a major factor. But, bought this with a purpose other than to brush up on foot pedal controls. I guess what I really hoping to find out if any of the cheap machines are worth the effort and can be made to give satisfactory results with sufficient care and time? I am assuming that I will end up needing to work on most of the pin bores on this machine at some point, especially if I ever want it to do any decent grading work. Although, I'd have to be a good enough operator to do decent grading, that is a different problem though...

 

[jonathanks]

I've also never been able to find the recoil spring guads for this thing. I have the rear half of the left side, but am missing the rest. Any ideas? I had found some at Starr Parts a few years ago and them my tow vehicle broke down (for most of a year) a couple of days before I was going to go pick them (and an idler tensioner set with a good spring)...

 

[Volvomad]

If you have the time, have the interest, like learning as you go, like a big challenge and have reasonable idea of what is involved then jump in. This gang here are very helpful and have all the info.

 

[DMiller]

IF can get p/ns go on Machinery Trader under the Disassembled machines(Scrappers) and post a search for the shields.

 

[Tenwheeler]

I better stock up on liquor and popcorn

You can use those two together? Sounds tough!

 

[Cat977]

This is were a Mini Fridge can really Help!

 

[DMiller]

Favorite meals when younger popcorn and beer watching football or baseball

as to the OP
My old Allis was a ‘farm machine’ where near all of it was as worn
Did what I needed to do until tired of scratch patching fixed it better then sold it. If will sit a great deal is it really worth bringing it back to tighter tolerances?

check with local machine shops or HE mechanics as most likely be better off financially to have them line bore the pin holes.

 

[Tinkerer]

You could try bedding new bushings in the existing holes with Belzona or a similar product.
I had very good results using it to repair a swing cylinder bushing bore.

 

[Cat977]

Well I'll give you another choice. You would do it the same as Tinkerer's Video. Except I think you have partially good bores and you would use the bucket pins. I would like to see pictures of all the bores including the arms on the machine. I say if the backside of the picture of the worst bore looks pretty solid I would use this product. The old Timer’s at the Plant before me said Belzona was something they tried without good results. I wasn't there they may have done it wrong, or wrong application. I also have some advice on using any Epoxy type material and I will help you through this. Also I have some other advise about line boring. If you want to go that way. The 5 pound kit is $800 should be more than enough.

MEGA STEEL POLYMER COMPOUND 5LB KIT WITH ACCESSORIES
Mega Steel™
Trowelable Steel-Polymer Compound
Mega Steel is a 2-part steel reinforced metal repair compound.
• Fast repairs for reduced downtime and production delays
• Adheres to metal, concrete, cured wood and epoxies
• Easy to machine – turn, face, mill, drill, tap
• Good abrasion resistance & toughness
APPLICATIONS:
• Resurface worn pump shaft collars and pump shafts
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• Glass or concrete lined pipe
• Resurface cavitation damage to hydro-turbine housings
• Resurface cavitated pipe elbows & pipe flange connections
• Level rocking utility access covers & manhole covers

• TECH SPECIFICATIONS
• SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS

MEGA STEEL POLYMER COMPOUND 5LB KIT WITH ACCESSORIES
Product Name: Mega Steel
Item: Steel Polymer Repair Compounds
Type: Steel-Filled
Additional Information: Hardness: 86-89 Shore D
Color: DARK GRAY
Container: Bucket
Net Contents: 5 lb
Working Time: 30 Minutes @75 Degree F
Cure Time: 6 Hours @75 Degree F
Tensile Strength: 7000 psi

 

[Tinkerer]

MEGA STEEL POLYMER COMPOUND 5LB KIT .
Where is it sold ??

 

[Cat977]

I never knew what we paid for it. They Just complained it was Real Expensive! We bought it through a welding supplies dealer. I had gotten 9 kits over say 7 years. Tough stuff it wouldn't shatter like epoxy or ceramic coatings. With that and a Very Good dry release agent I did some real tricky S**t on the insides of some real big pumps, ect. So I found this place though Google images. Tried to get a price, Made me register it said 1 item in cart said $799 But that was for a three Pack! All that complaining, think it was a Government Hammer or Something! Well If you were in business I'd say take it into a Weld Fab shop and have it Line Bored. I have a variable speed Milwaukee Magnetic Base drill press with a swivel head, they aren't Cheap! You'd have to rig a mount. You can buy just the boring bar you need, and some centering cones. Buy some flange mount self centering bearings. Weld bar stock to the bucket, hold the bearing with C-Clamps. Drive the boring bar with a 3/4" Universal joint. Now before you start Hand Feeding that Boring Bar though The Welded Hole Pass me a Beer out of the Mini Fridge because I Think I saw Alice go Down after That Damm Rabbit. Sorry caught up in The Moment. I spent lots and lots of time running machines and building machines and know how hard it can be to get something really right. If the Bucket and Arms are Straight and you have Most of the hole intact and "We '' do this one step at a Time. You should have a nice tight Machine when you're Done. If you want to do this I can write it out ahead of time. Before you buy anything. You are going to need a Micrometer or two, Telescoping gages and a die grinder. If you have a compressor, Pneumatic. I have an electric from harbor Freight, Not a good idea. You want a high speed one. Never checked out electric ones. The Question is?
Do you feel Lucky
https://www.partsmaster.com/