learning how to doze

[ok dirt witcher]

My dad made me

My dad made me do it old school. If you can't make the dirt go where it's supposed to with something that's mechanically powered, get on the end of a shovel. I was amazed at how sufficient I became and the new "WANT TO" attitude I had.

 

[ok dirt witcher]

"Hunger and will" Another learning tool.

For those who want to teach and for those who want to learn. We all came into this world not even being able to hold our own head up. Be patient and use kind words, Yelling never helps. Another way of teaching or showing a student is when lunch hour or the end of the day comes tell him to drive the company vehicle over what he's graded at 10 mph, if he thinks it's sufficient have him drive his own vehicle at 65 over it. He will get the Idea, I think in today's company's there's not enough one on one with new operators. I was taught the basics in what ever it was I was operating then left alone, if I got it stuck I had to get it unstuck, If it broke down I had to repair it myself or help anyway. I was raised on a farm and was around my parent's, grandpa's and uncles. My dad and later on me owned a variety of different companies that had to do with machinery, if we thought it would make a buck. My dad started out being an Iron-worker then a drag-line operator and went on to becoming a lineman (back then you wasn't considered a man if you wasn't hung-over) then at the age of 26 became a pilot and went into (crop-dusting) business for himself. I was fortunate because all the guys that worked for him in each company showed me the ropes, but one thing for sure they never cut me any slack. They used to tell me that if they spilled their drinks or beer leaving the job site cause of my roads i'd have to buy the whiskey. (I'd have to give-em money I wasn't even out of school at the time LOL) I know there's a few of you older gent's on this site who can relate to those by-gone days. Safety and Production is of top priority today but there where a lot of things I learned then that's not taught today. Now that I'm push-in 40 at 39mph I realize my dad was right when he said I was getting a million dollar education. If you want to learn you will and if your foreman would rather have you sitting in the truck instead of trying to learn maybe he's the one that needs to go. These are just the things I've learned and I know their methods wouldn't be tolerated today. IF YOUR A NEW GUY AND SOMEONE IS TAKEING TIME TO HELP YOU, TELL THEM "THANK YOU "OR BETTER YET BUY-EM A DRINK IF THE CHANCE ARRISES and if you happen to be in your young 20's and you "KNOW-IT_ALL" have fun digging yourself out while everybody watches. I was very fortunate to be raised by so many "dad" figures and most of them are no longer living, but I will never forget them. Ive been following this site for some time now (2yr's) and there's a wealth of information here by a lot of different operators and I just want to say thanks because i have learned alot just reading the post. I hope my post isn't to long or offends anybody.

 

[RollOver Pete]

The bubble in my rear

Back about 30 years ago,
one of my very first dozer operating lessons was digging out for a pond that was to be used for filling water pulls and trucks.
Since there really wasn't much that I could break or mess up, Floyd gave me a go at this project.
Since I was only 14 at the time and still had some growing to do, I naturally sat lower in the seat than a normal full grown adult.
Using his old 46A, Floyd first made a few pass along the back side,
then a few passes along the front side.
Now he backs up and starts his first push....just enough to load up the blade and he stops.
Now its my turn.
Keep in mind that at 14 I had spent a little time on a dozer but I really didnt know what to do with one.
Floyds intentions were to help me develop my still developing bubble.
So, after he explains a few things to me, he gets me up in the operators seat and hands me a bandanna.
I clean my glasses off with it then he informs me that the bandanna is going to be used to cover them, not clean them.
After realizing that this old man has lost it due to one too many cold ones,
I cover up my glasses.
He sits down next to me and guides me through a few passes.
By listening to the engine, feeling the tractor come up to the area that he had earlier notched out and backing up using a windrow as a guide,
dozing in the blind was really easier than you would think.
The more I pushed, the easier it got.
Backing up and feeling the machine climb told me it was time to grab a friction to swing the tractor over a bit.
As I backed up to the top or beginning of my cut I just grabbed the opposite friction along with a little brake to get in line for my next push.
By listening to the machine talk to me and feeling the way it would move beneath me, it was so easy that even a blind man could do this.
With the bulk of the material pushed out, I removed the bandanna and yes,
it looked like a huge bomb had went off.
But more importantly I had learned what that bubble was all about.
Using ones sight, along with the sound and feel of the machine as it loads the blade and the feel of the machine as it climbs the previous push or climbs the last windrow all comes from that bubble.

Now that old 46A didnt have a cab or stereo or air ride seat.
No sound suppression, no doors or windows and certainly no plastic panels.
The seat which I sat on was bolted solid to the floor.
It was easy to feel everything that way.
And without any windows, there were no problems hearing what the machine was doing.

I think that kind of "old school" lesson might be kind of hard to get with todays politically correct plastic luxury dozers.
Anyways, my point is that its all about feeling what the machine is doing.
That can be hard to do in a luxury machine.

There you have it...
One of my first lessons.
And to Floyd Schope....
I don't remember if I ever thanked you for the work you gave me that summer or the lessons and tips you gave me about running equipment.
So "thanks" Floyd.
I owe ya :drinkup
R.I.P.

 

[Dirtman2007]

Back about 30 years ago,
one of my very first dozer operating lessons was digging out for a pond that was to be used for filling water pulls and trucks.
Since there really wasn't much that I could break or mess up, Floyd gave me a go at this project.
Since I was only 14 at the time and still had some growing to do, I naturally sat lower in the seat than a normal full grown adult.
Using his old 46A, Floyd first made a few pass along the back side,
then a few passes along the front side.
Now he backs up and starts his first push....just enough to load up the blade and he stops.
Now its my turn.
Keep in mind that at 14 I had spent a little time on a dozer but I really didnt know what to do with one.
Floyds intentions were to help me develop my still developing bubble.
So, after he explains a few things to me, he gets me up in the operators seat and hands me a bandanna.
I clean my glasses off with it then he informs me that the bandanna is going to be used to cover them, not clean them.
After realizing that this old man has lost it due to one too many cold ones,
I cover up my glasses.
He sits down next to me and guides me through a few passes.
By listening to the engine, feeling the tractor come up to the area that he had earlier notched out and backing up using a windrow as a guide,
dozing in the blind was really easier than you would think.
The more I pushed, the easier it got.
Backing up and feeling the machine climb told me it was time to grab a friction to swing the tractor over a bit.
As I backed up to the top or beginning of my cut I just grabbed the opposite friction along with a little brake to get in line for my next push.
By listening to the machine talk to me and feeling the way it would move beneath me, it was so easy that even a blind man could do this.
With the bulk of the material pushed out, I removed the bandanna and yes,
it looked like a huge bomb had went off.
But more importantly I had learned what that bubble was all about.
Using ones sight, along with the sound and feel of the machine as it loads the blade and the feel of the machine as it climbs the previous push or climbs the last windrow all comes from that bubble.

Now that old 46A didnt have a cab or stereo or air ride seat.
No sound suppression, no doors or windows and certainly no plastic panels.
The seat which I sat on was bolted solid to the floor.
It was easy to feel everything that way.
And without any windows, there were no problems hearing what the machine was doing.

I think that kind of "old school" lesson might be kind of hard to get with todays politically correct plastic luxury dozers.
Anyways, my point is that its all about feeling what the machine is doing.
That can be hard to do in a luxury machine.

There you have it...
One of my first lessons.
And to Floyd Schope....
I don't remember if I ever thanked you for the work you gave me that summer or the lessons and tips you gave me about running equipment.
So "thanks" Floyd.
I owe ya :drinkup
R.I.P.

Pete I always enjoy read your posts, but after Reading this one I found it rather Ironic that I learned the same exact way as you. To be exact I was
14 at the time, working over the summer on a farm building/ dredging out ponds for a farmer. I had run excavators for a few years then (running a kobelco 210 for him), but that was it. Never though in my wildest dream that he would ask me to use his old D6C one day to push the mud away from the pond I had just dug out.

I can still remember that day perfect
I remember calling over the radio saying I needed someone to come run the dozer to keep the mud pushed back so I could keep on digging the pond.
5 minutes later the farmer was there and had be in the seat showing me what the controls did.
I was scared as hell at first, never been on anything like that before.
Even worse, after he showed me what the controls dig he left.
I'm in the back of a 300 acre farm, have not even made my first push yet, before he had to go back to the shop. maybe it was for the best:beatsme
Being a little short at the age of 14 it was not the easiest thing to run, the ol'e push/ pull to turn took a while to get the hang of, along with the 1 or 2 second delay for the blade to move.
Like you mentioned you had to run it by feel, Heck there was 8' of hood in front of you it seemed, just had to watch the corners of your blade as i could not see nothing as the seat was so low and 3' wide I had to wedge myself into the corner just so I could reach everything.
But looking back on it now i would not change a thing,
learned alot that summer and was really upset when school started back and I had to stop working there.
Hard to believe how many different machines I have been on since then. And Now, 7 years later, I have a brand new 2008 Komatsu D39 with all the worlly gigs and climate controls that is going to arrive at the end of the week with my name on it.
But I not going to lie it was fun on the old D6c, but those dusty 100 degree summer days and 20 degree wet winter days where your standing on the blade, butt leaning on the hood trying to get some heat off the radiator to thaw yourself out, will only be the turn of a knob to a more desireable temperature in the cab.

Oh yeah, being able to hear yourself think... and not have your ears ring all night.

boy I'm getting like you and writting novels in every post:notworthy

 

[ok dirt witcher]

You can't learn how to operate machinery by running a hand shovel........?

:Banghead Yep my dad was right. you learn more between birth and the age 14 then you will from 15 to 25 or longer.( between the age 15 and 25 the brain's connected to the wrong organ) I remember not wanting to tell my dad that I tore up the backhoe, or ran the forklift through the building and the time I took out a 1/4 of mile of fence while plowing a field and didn't even notice because a certain girl was riding in the tractor with me. Those things might of upset him but the word he hated me to say was "I CAN"T" he said and can't can't do nothing and never will. At the age of 30 ( was for me) your more than willing to learn especially if you've got mouths to feed. One thing I realize is those lessons I learned when I was young played a big roll when I started teaching or guiding someone else. You can't learn how to operate machinery by running a hand shovel........ Not True but it's a harder course . It's also impossible to listen when your mouth is open. COOL HAN LUKE the movie has a lot of life's lessons in it. Be the best shovel operator you can and I promise you when the right person takes notice it won't be the shovel he see's.

 

[ok dirt witcher]

I should of told my dad it was the blinfold not the girl that made me not see the fence. LOL Nah he was right I had my head up my..... well you Know!!!! I was looking for my brain.

 

[AtlasRob]

See what you gone and done now ok dirt witcher welcome aboard, glad you finally took the plundge, its not too bad once your in is it

Great story as always ROP, and Dirtman you keep writtin novels like that :thumbsup

 

[olderndirt]

I was once told by a very intelligent dirt man many years ago, if you want to work with dirt you better be marginally smarter than the dirt. It took me a few years to figure out just what he meant.
Get a picture in your mind of what you want the finished product to look like and work to that end. How you do it is up to you, and there is hard ways to do it and there is easy ways to do it. Being naturally lazy I always looked for the easiest and most efficient way to to a job (only once) and do it right (only once) without wrecking me or the machine.
Another thing the same man told me was when I became a foreman at 19 years old -- surround yourself with good people, give them good clear direction (plant the finished picture in their mind), then leave them alone and let them do their magic. Just stay close enough to offer assistance when they ask for it or if things appear to be derailing.

These words of wisdom have served me well and have served a good number of young people I have taken under my wing as well.

 

[Deas Plant]

'Nother side.`

Hi, Folks.
Some interesting stories and thoughts here. I'd like to toss in another one, if I may.

Learning how to doze? (I'm pretty good at that - I can doze off to sleep almost anywhere. LOL.) I would suggest that while ever you are still operating dozers, if you stop learning how to do it, you're dead from the neck up.

Same applies to anything you might choose to do.

Just my 0.02.

Youn all have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

 

[EZ TRBO]

Growing up I had always been around the dozers as they were our main meathod in earthmoving. I spent many many hours sitting on the 15's with my dad and uncle. Watching with awe in how they went about things and how they were able to work side by side and just know what the other was thinking(been working together for over 30 years). I had it in my head that some day I would be that good(and had never actually moved dirt with one at that young age).
When I first started on a dozer it was simple taks such as pushing up stockpiles or knocking down dump truck loads, or digging holes. For a while I know I moved the blade too much and went slow when I needed to speed up. At one point I was very fusturated that I might never get to be a good dozer man. My uncle just told me that I'd been trying to hard to be fussy and not just putting the blade in the ground and moving dirt, worry bout becoming a finish man later. It wasn't long before it just came to me and i "knew" what the blade was going to do as i moved and figured out that "feeling it in the seat" was very true indeed. I got to a point where I wanted to be on the dozer every chance I could to keep getting better and figureing things out.

Today my job allows me to spend plenty of time on both the dozers and excavator which i both enjoy running. Unlike many of my age(25) I'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a better operator on any and all types of machines. I might never be the expert on a dozer my dad or uncle are but it gives me a point to reach. I have many A+ operators I've watched over the years and they are my goal in operateing, to be as good as they are.

Trbo

Just two quick pics of my dad and uncle.

 

[EZ TRBO]

Hi, Folks.
Some interesting stories and thoughts here. I'd like to toss in another one, if I may.

Learning how to doze? (I'm pretty good at that - I can doze off to sleep almost anywhere. LOL.) I would suggest that while ever you are still operating dozers, if you stop learning how to do it, you're dead from the neck up.

Same applies to anything you might choose to do.

Just my 0.02.

Youn all have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Couldn't agree more with that statement. I've always said the day you think you know it all is the day you had better die cause your top half is already. You never quit learning and you should look at all things to help learn more. Your never to old to learn and everyday shows different problems and ways to go about them.

As always Deas your full of wisdom.

Trbo

 

[Deas Plant]

On The Acquistion Of Wisdom.

Hi, EZ TRBO.
Why, thank you, Sir, for your kind words. I 'figgered' out very early in my operating career that you can learn from the experts and you can learn from the 'mugs' (Dow-Nunder slang for beginners.) You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs but you can often learn how NOT to do it. And, sometimes even a mug will come up with a new wrinkle that is worth knowing.

Never write a guy off just 'cos he only started doing it last week. In 1966, I was the youngest operator on the Hammersley iron ore railway project in Western Australia - and the first to be given a D9G dozer to work in the 'Big Cut' at 173 mile feeding the face shovels. (I've still got my big head to prove it. LOL. At that time, I had only been operating full time for about 13 months and I had about ONE hour up on D9G's. Guess they musta liked my toothy smile. LOL.) Up to that time, we had only had D8's to use on the rock cuts.

Afta orl that, I dunno if eye kin staye awayk long enuff to tipe meye useyull siggnaychure. Gess I'll hafta lett ther orto-signaycthyer thingy tayke cair uv itt wyle eye gopher uh nana nap.

 

[Taylortractornu]

I Always like to listen to the old timers and watch them work to. Dad is one of the best here and i always like d to learn from him. He put me on a farm tractor when I was about 7 and later he'd often bring home a backhoe from work. When I was 12 he put me on a 912 Leibherr in a gravel pit one day to scratch around. Then later he put me in an old 230 Mitsubishi hoe. I reall ydind get to start on a dozer Till I was around 17 My brother was in the business and I mostly ran a backhoe and truck for him. He put me to helping clean up a clearing job we did. I had been on enough to know o to operate it a bit but not super great, He taught me to work in tandem with the excavator when we had a large stup to get out of the ground He'd dig around it then Id ramp down into it and give extra help from the bottom. He had a 100 Komatsu hoe and a D30P dozer. Then dad was helping a friend clear with an old HD20 AC with a cable blade. Dad was working long hours at the landfill and didnt have time to work on his obligations so he gave me a few pointers and put me to work. We did the 5 acres and it looked good. I had worked summers since I was 14 with dad at the landfill running the scraper and a little time on the D5 . And I also had to learn how to turn wrenches on them to. I finished my college as a certified machinist and went to work for a pump manufacturer that didnt want you to learn more than they wanted. I quit and worked for myself putting in septic tanks with my old Ford hoe. I got a job as a laborer in Alabama with Huffman from Poplar Bluff Mo. It was the only oppening available but they noted on my ap that I had equipment of my own and was around it alot. I alway ate dinner with the operators talking to them and then the day came where I got a break they needed a 2 foot wide trench dug to lay a cable for the carpenters. None of the operators like the new 580 Case Bh because it was a 3 stick. I told them that was no problem my Ford was like that. I dug the trench without any fancy work and backfilled. I had run a loader alot to so I got assigned to unloading trucks with the Tool carrier. Then the day came when we had an operator out and I guess one of my friends got tired of me talking about wanting to run a rearengin track loader. They put me on a D66e Komatsu I was working moving shot rock for the excavator and he realized i knew how to work in tandem with him. Hed push a boulder into the bucket and I would automatically roll back and lifit it up off the ground and back up and take it to my spoil pile. I didnt know that He had the Super in the woods watch ing me and how I had planned my dumping I kept my rock seperated for later use and my top soil and clay seperate as well.
We didnt have aan onsite mechanic and if something broke it might be 2 weeks before one of the company guys came off another job. When a hose blew or some thine happened I told them I could fix it so Id fix it after work or then if it was urgent. I started off making 8.00 an hour 3 weekes earliers and at the 4th week I hade been given a 2 dollar raise and made a full time operator. I got put on the track loader mostly and then got started running the TD15 although I wasnt great at it I didnt get to spend any great deal of time on it. When i had a wreck on the way to work I got a broke leg at the same time dad had to have surgery for his heart. I took over his job as the doc wouldnt release me to work for Huffman. Id use my walker to get on the dozer of scraper. I moslty pushed off after the trucks dumped then would haul sand to cover with. I got on the dozer gonna move some white sand and learned right off sand needed a super full blade to feel it. at the end of the day I had to get the 762 out and dress up wit hthe scraper.
When dad got back to work the Doc realsed me and I finished the year with huffman till dad had a relapse then I took over the landfill. And when pops came back he made me stay on the dozer making me correct a couple bad habits i picked up from one of the operators at Huffman. Dads sying was the world is made of Dirt you cant screw it up. He said its not good to bounce a dozer operator around like I was doing till I got the feel of the machine. And the he most important thing to learn is that if you quit learning youre either dead, or not operating any more. Ive been operating now for about 9 years straight now. and every day I learn something new. I strongly think that newer machines spoil the newer operators. I got to work recently with a 24 year old that belly ached about how you couldnt finish tieh a big machine I told him that when Dad worked for Wright Brothers that I rembered them spreading topsoil on road jobs with 8's An all our finish work at the landfill is done with a straight blade 5. He recently turned down a good job because the ywere gonna make him run a 650JD with power shift not a hydro stat. I think all operators should have to at least try a straight blade cable lift machine about 2 weeks and then run a trackloader a while afterthat LOL. Ive also had to teach some one to and I hate getting a person 18 to 25 that already knows it all seems they dont learn well. I learned along time ago the older folks Been there and done that. Sorry for the long winded post.

 

[Johnny English]

My granddad use to be a backhoe instructer and he was excellent. It was a case of get it that one, this does this, this does that, go over there and have a go, don't worry if you mess up. His motto, you've either got it or you aint. If its going to happen it will come in a matter of days. Good instructors give you a bit of direction and you learn the rest by misstakes and what suits you best. Time and practise is the best coach in your own space. Anyone can pull levers and drive. Operators think first! drive second!

 

[Clayton M]

The bigger the machine the machine the better. I learned on a Cat D6N. D5G is to small and the D6R is very good to learn on because you can not see the blade. I feel like most of the new operators are second guessing them selfs on the fact that if they are correcting them selfs, they think that they are messing up. You need to learn the feeling in your butt of where the blade is going instead of watching the blades movements. I always give my new operators some very hard dirt to work on (ie. haul road on the weekends.) so that if they do get a jittery blade they will not cut into the dirt as much. Also, start on a flat surface. if you start on a surface that is unlevel, then when the last part of your track goes off of that surface onto the surface that you are cutting you will have to correct FAST! Other than that put someone new blading ruts. that helps because your blade doesn't have to ride the surface, you can just put the blade down just far enough to catch the ruts and level the dirt. Speed is a big factor. 1st Gear.

 

[dbf577]

dont mean to hijack this thread but I'm 16 and my family owns a d3g xl what is a good way to learn to become a better operator. Thanks

 

[Clayton M]

A D3G is very hard to run because the blade is very quick and the tracks are short but here you go,

I feel like most of the new operators are second guessing them selfs on the fact that if they are correcting them selfs, they think that they are messing up. You need to learn the feeling in your butt of where the blade is going instead of watching the blades movements. I always give my new operators some very hard dirt to work on (ie. haul road on the weekends.) so that if they do get a jittery blade they will not cut into the dirt as much. Also, start on a flat surface. if you start on a surface that is unlevel, then when the last part of your track goes off of that surface onto the surface that you are cutting you will have to correct FAST! Other than that put someone new blading ruts. that helps because your blade doesn't have to ride the surface, you can just put the blade down just far enough to catch the ruts and level the dirt. Speed is a big factor. 1st Gear.

Don't worry about it you will get it. By the way, I'm about your age too.

 

[qball]

i find that a full blade grades better than a half full blade. i also tru to grade in second grade and i use the decellerator to slow down a bit. this will also slow your blade down a bit. start on grade and you will stay on grade and don't mess with the angle till you can straight blade well. also, listening to AC/DC has been scientifically proven to help you grade 47% better.
no, really.

 

[Deas Plant]

How to learn............................

Hi, Dfb577.
My pore ol' mem'ry's gittin' a bit foggy lately but I vaguely remember that the two most essential things are called 'practice' (lotsa that needed) an' 'keeping yer eyes'n ears open when yer around people who CAN do it'.

When you are starting a cut, back up onto smooth ground to start and back a little further than where you actually want to start cutting. This will give you a little forward movement to get your blade GENTLY down to the cut height so that you start cutting on grade right where you want to start.

Hope this helps.

 

[stumpjumper83]

It takes three p's to be able to operate a dozer.

Practice

Patience

Perserverance