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Kobelco hydraulic excavators

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello,

Today I visit that machine again and I am not happy.
Firts the machine model and serial: SK200 YNU0107

I have checked and Boom cylinders are not bypassing.

Than I connect flow turbine to P2 and I record:

1.) cold oil 25 deg.C
min engine rev. and S....19,2 l/min


max. engine rev. and S ...37,5 l/min
Boom lifting - P2 for support in conflux ...137 l/min at cca.(sombody corrupt my fitting for pressure transduser and I used analog manometer) 120 bar. When boom reached highest level pressure rised to 280 bar and flow went slowly to 75l/min but only if I held boom joystic contiusly after I reach toppest point. If jostick was relised and pushed agan than only 40 l/min was got out of pump.Here I suspect pump regulator fault.

Arm cylinder opening: 240 l/min at 50-100 bar - in vertical position arms waits a little bit ( flow still stand on 240 l/min) and than continue. When it reacjh final position flow ends at 43 l/mon at 280 bar.
Arm cylinder closing: 150 l/min and when reached final position stayed at 280 bar.

2.) worm oil tank outside 40 deg.C and Al flow turbine 50 deg. C

Still P2.

Travel uphill 150l/min at 100 bar. Both tracks moves with the same speed.

Boom lifting - P2 for support in conflux ...130 l/min at 120 bar. When boom reached highest level pressure rised to 280 bar and flow went slowly to 60 l/min but only if I held boom joystic contiusly after I reach toppest point. If jostick was relised and pushed agan than only 26 l/min !! was got out of pump.Here I suspect pump regulator fault again.

Arm retracting at 200 l/min and extending at 130 l/min ( cca. 15 % slower than cold)
Arm cylinder full open: 270 bar and 42 l/min
Arm cylinder closing: 270 bar and 26 l/min. Why is here difference at pump flow??

When boom lifting is operate with arm extending at the same time arm move fast and boom very slow hardly noticed (flow on P2 105 l/mn). When arm extented to the end boom started to move faster.

Swing 150 l/min when rottating around.

I changed also pipes on pump in that way that P1 becamed P2 and also Pi1,2 lines to. and flow turbine stayed on the same line. And the measuring was identical.

When I went digging in to the sand I loaded full bucket of wet sand. I noticed that Bucket did not have power to close, arm also did not have power to retract ( I heard high tone of pump noise ( regulating to min ( 42l/min on P2) and than ofcourse boom did not have power to lift ( flow meter showed 27 l/min at 280 bar).
Than I lowered the boom and lifted myself ( also lifting was not easy ( lack of power) after few attemps I lifted myself up with boom and than fast swiched comand to boom lift and than the boom managed to lift normaly ( also dieselengine felt that) and flow meter showed 62 l/min at 280 bar. When I stoped lifting and tried again with lifting problem was again here. Flow was a little higher 66 l/min and pressure 280 bar but the boom did not lit anymore , pump hered regulating and engine dont felt it.

I could not test pump 1 because there was diferent fitting wich i did not have with me nd the shops was closed alredy.
I suspect pump regulation, but it is strange for me.

What Do You think?

Regards,
Gregor

hi Gregor,

one more check, i have run into this lately, good thing to be aware of
tee before (pilot gear pump) and after the pilot lever lock solenoid too
calculate the difference between the 2 pressure gauges
pilot pump # bar minus the outlet # bar after the lever lock solenoid = the total pressure drop across the solenoid valve.
if this pilot lever lock solenoid is starting to fail especially once it warms up as current passes thru it
it can lose its magnetic force causing a flow restriction resulting in a higher pressure
if you change the solenoid the pilot oil flow will increase and pressure to rest of pilot system flooding the signal circuits to the ports
and thus shifting the neutral bypass cut spools more dropping the pi1/pi2 pressures at the hyd pump regulators which will result in a higher and
more stable reaction of oil flow delivery out of your main hydr pumps.
plus the conflux spools will open more also delivering more oil and increase speeds.

just a thought
cheers!
adam
 

gregor1978

Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
12
Location
Slovenia
hi Gregor,

one more check, i have run into this lately, good thing to be aware of
tee before (pilot gear pump) and after the pilot lever lock solenoid too
calculate the difference between the 2 pressure gauges
pilot pump # bar minus the outlet # bar after the lever lock solenoid = the total pressure drop across the solenoid valve.
if this pilot lever lock solenoid is starting to fail especially once it warms up as current passes thru it
it can lose its magnetic force causing a flow restriction resulting in a higher pressure
if you change the solenoid the pilot oil flow will increase and pressure to rest of pilot system flooding the signal circuits to the ports
and thus shifting the neutral bypass cut spools more dropping the pi1/pi2 pressures at the hyd pump regulators which will result in a higher and
more stable reaction of oil flow delivery out of your main hydr pumps.
plus the conflux spools will open more also delivering more oil and increase speeds.

just a thought
cheers!
adam

Hello Mr. Kobelco,

Thank You for help.

With oil will be hard to say. Certanly is to old and was changed two Years ago when owner put newly repaird pump on. But it is ISO VG 46 ( viscosity 46 Cst.) Here I can not teach owneres that oil and cleanless is very important.

I measured the pilot pump last time but I did not record it. But I think that pressure is lower tha 40 bar at low engine speed. At engine full speed it recovers to 48 bar. I also think that comands dont work at engine low idle. What if pressure is lower than 40 bar at low idle - is than gear pump worn out or could be also relief valve problem?

I will go tomorrow there and do what You suggest. But I think this could be realy the problem. Because last time I mention that I noticed ( from measuring pump pilot Pi signal) when retracting arm, P1 pump did not engage under heavy load. If there was to less pressure on on pilot this could be also the case, because travel priorty valve could not ber swiched over to combine both pumps.
Do You maybe know how much pressure You need to engage valve spool with no load and valve spool fuly loaded? I gues higher pressure is needed for higher load due higher flow forces.
Still wonder why arm extending plus boom lifting dont work at the same time ( boom extemly slow). Your solution could explain in that way that arm spool needs less pilot pressure to open than boom spool and because two spools is activated and pilot pump has unsufficien flow pilot pressure on arm spool is less than if only arm spool was activated ( because of that on flow meer was read only 105 l/min - when operate arm alone was 150l/min) ?

What about arm standing still for cca. 1 s in vertical position and flow reading is more than 200 l/min ?

Regards,
Gregor
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

Thank You for help.

With oil will be hard to say. Certanly is to old and was changed two Years ago when owner put newly repaird pump on. But it is ISO VG 46 ( viscosity 46 Cst.) Here I can not teach owneres that oil and cleanless is very important.

I measured the pilot pump last time but I did not record it. But I think that pressure is lower tha 40 bar at low engine speed. At engine full speed it recovers to 48 bar. I also think that comands dont work at engine low idle. What if pressure is lower than 40 bar at low idle - is than gear pump worn out or could be also relief valve problem?

I will go tomorrow there and do what You suggest. But I think this could be realy the problem. Because last time I mention that I noticed ( from measuring pump pilot Pi signal) when retracting arm, P1 pump did not engage under heavy load. If there was to less pressure on on pilot this could be also the case, because travel priorty valve could not ber swiched over to combine both pumps.
Do You maybe know how much pressure You need to engage valve spool with no load and valve spool fuly loaded? I gues higher pressure is needed for higher load due higher flow forces.
Still wonder why arm extending plus boom lifting dont work at the same time ( boom extemly slow). Your solution could explain in that way that arm spool needs less pilot pressure to open than boom spool and because two spools is activated and pilot pump has unsufficien flow pilot pressure on arm spool is less than if only arm spool was activated ( because of that on flow meer was read only 105 l/min - when operate arm alone was 150l/min) ?

What about arm standing still for cca. 1 s in vertical position and flow reading is more than 200 l/min ?

Regards,
Gregor

hi gregor,

if this is the case that you are less than 40 bar at lo-idle then it is quite likely that your pilot gear pump is worn and should be replaced with new.
if the pilot relief is checked and looks to be okay then before you pull all your hair out this would have to be done first.
after replacing all needs to be retested.
cheers
adam
 

grandkobelco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
232
Location
lazy boy in a barn
Occupation
chainsaw, small engine mechanic
Thx guys you were right on the money. Teed into Pi2 at the regulator - pressure goes from 700 psi to almost zero when arm is operated and it moves just fine. Swing pilot action drops the pressure hardly at all and - almost no swing. Checked tees and most valves today - found nothing amiss. Spools, valves and springs all seem to be fine. Did not check neutral cut valve 306A as it is underneath and I didn't think I could get it back in again without big trouble but I see in the manual it is implicated. If I can get the topside allen head plug out is it possible to check the NCV spool (topside 306B was perfect) by inserting a clean rod from the top to see if the 2 springs on the other end of 306A compress ok? I presume the port relief valves are not involved in this problem. Am I correct? Next step is to put another 1000 psi gauge on the pilot lines (return lines I guess) connecting the swing control valve, the hyd valve mated to the swing motor and then it goes on to the control block A where I found the Teed pressure switch Adam referred to. I'd only be guessing at what the psi in this line should be. I see that some of these fittings are actually restricting orifices. Does this line feed the pilot signal (to swing) back into the control block to get P2 pump to ramp up??? Thx for your thoughts.
Yes, there is a pilot line that goes from the hyd swing motor
to the main controll valve to stroke the P2 NCV when you swing, this pilot line is missing, routed wrong, or the shuttle check valves are missing, not functioning. Don't dig out the P2 NCV itself I dought thats the problem. As adam said, check out the parts cat to find the location of these balls. Inspect closly for missing or damedge. Pressure in this line will be pilot oil pressure, 400-600 psi. The NCV is variable, the more pilot oil you put on top of it the more it moves, the more it moves the more it cuts oil to the P2 gov, the more oil P2 puts out the faster you swing.
 

KeeslerIron

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Middletown, NY
Hello,
I have a Kobelco SK300LC Sn-YCU0162. The machine suddenly stopped swinging either direction. The engine and pumps labor when the swing is activated. There is no movement what so ever. Not sure where to start without a manual to give an idea of how the system works. Is there a swing brake that may not be releasing? Any help, insight, and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you
 

gregor1978

Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
12
Location
Slovenia
hi gregor,

if this is the case that you are less than 40 bar at lo-idle then it is quite likely that your pilot gear pump is worn and should be replaced with new.
if the pilot relief is checked and looks to be okay then before you pull all your hair out this would have to be done first.
after replacing all needs to be retested.
cheers
adam


Hello Mr. Kobelco,

Today I went back check again pilot line. At lovest engine idle I got 29 bar on P3 and at highest engine speed 50 bar. When I egaged lever lock the pressur felt down for 1 bar on 28 bar and recovered in1/2 second. Temperature of oil was 30 deg. C. Than I worrm up the system and funy because i think outside relative low temparature and rain system needed 1 hour to slighty show its malfunction and I feel like employee on exavator... All functions becamed slower and slower and did not want to stop working.
Than I read at lowes idle 19 bar and at highest 49 bar. Temperature of oil was 50 deg. Celsius.
I said this is it, gear pump is worn out and I do one more check.
I disconected pipe from gear pump and put relief valve directly on it and conect it with improvised flow meter ( big mensure). After engine started in low idle I set the pressure on my relief to 50 bar. Almost no flow came out of gear pump. Than the speed was set to max. and I measure only 6 l/min flow. And the flow should be 18 l/min. I concluded that gear pump is defective and neeeds to be replaced.
Now I will order new gear pump and I hope the problems will be solved...Otherwise I will be back :)

Thanks.

Regards,
Gregor
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello,
I have a Kobelco SK300LC Sn-YCU0162. The machine suddenly stopped swinging either direction. The engine and pumps labor when the swing is activated. There is no movement what so ever. Not sure where to start without a manual to give an idea of how the system works. Is there a swing brake that may not be releasing? Any help, insight, and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you

hi,
question, what is your swing gear reduction gear oil level at ?
can you see level on the dipstick ?
gear oil is 80w-90
if oil is low very likely that the top upper gear carrier has the one gear burned out and unit is mechanically jammed.
if no oil i suggest you unbolt the swing hyd mtr and lift off the swing gear unit to do a visual.
please refer to the parts cat for drawing before you attempt.
the swing tower if you are unaware consists of the upper portion - swing hyd mtr
the lower gear reduction
cheers
adam
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

Today I went back check again pilot line. At lovest engine idle I got 29 bar on P3 and at highest engine speed 50 bar. When I egaged lever lock the pressur felt down for 1 bar on 28 bar and recovered in1/2 second. Temperature of oil was 30 deg. C. Than I worrm up the system and funy because i think outside relative low temparature and rain system needed 1 hour to slighty show its malfunction and I feel like employee on exavator... All functions becamed slower and slower and did not want to stop working.
Than I read at lowes idle 19 bar and at highest 49 bar. Temperature of oil was 50 deg. Celsius.
I said this is it, gear pump is worn out and I do one more check.
I disconected pipe from gear pump and put relief valve directly on it and conect it with improvised flow meter ( big mensure). After engine started in low idle I set the pressure on my relief to 50 bar. Almost no flow came out of gear pump. Than the speed was set to max. and I measure only 6 l/min flow. And the flow should be 18 l/min. I concluded that gear pump is defective and neeeds to be replaced.
Now I will order new gear pump and I hope the problems will be solved...Otherwise I will be back :)

Thanks.

Regards,
Gregor

hi gregor,
if this is your fix, please do post your feedback just the same
adam
 

armadillo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
36
Location
Austin Tx
Hello Mr. Kobelco
I have a 2005(?) ED150 S/N YH02-01384 with aprox 5200 hrs on the machine. The drive motors have been slowly loosing power over the past few months and now the machine is starting to run hot. My first thought was a restricted radiator. Radiator is clean and full of fluid. I changed the thermostat. It helped a little but still running much warmer than normal. The machine is also using more fuel. Started off only getting hot when I was heavy pushing with the dozer. Now it heats up when ever the machine is working. If you stop and bring it to half throtel the temp. guage cools way down in about a minute. The tractor runs strong for the first couple hours. Once it starts heating up the tracks SLOW down. Other functions are not noticeably affected.

I did some onboard diagnostics.
N0.24
E-1 P-1
(cold, track at full stroke) comp. 741mA 30K
meas. 742mA 29K
(hot, track at full stroke) comp. 570mA 20K
meas. 570mA 19K
No.25
E-2 P-2
(cold,track at full stroke) comp. 742mA 30K
meas. 741mA 29K
(hot, track at full stroke) comp. 575-595mA 20K
meas. 576mA 19K
Looks like I'm loosing about a third of my pressure or volume witch is how the machine is acting. Not sure what to do next. I read your post on the O rings in the pump regulators but there is no square nut on the end of my pumps :-( They are Kawasaki though. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:

gregor1978

Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
12
Location
Slovenia
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

One more think:
I found up that in past somone repaired Kawasaki piston pump. And so he put there rear cover for 4 bolts gear pump with outer drain ( own relief valve) - like at SK200 mark6. And this 4 bolts gear pump is little bigger (10 or 12 cc/rev) than original (7cc/rev).
So now my machine has separate relief valve set on cca. 45 bar at 18 l/min and I will put there gear pump with 12 cc/rev with relief valve.

What is better to use gear pump relief and make hose conection to tank and set old relief valve to higher value, or to plug gear pump relief valve and reset old relief valve for 28 l/min flow?

Thanks.

Regards,
Gregor
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

One more think:
I found up that in past somone repaired Kawasaki piston pump. And so he put there rear cover for 4 bolts gear pump with outer drain ( own relief valve) - like at SK200 mark6. And this 4 bolts gear pump is little bigger (10 or 12 cc/rev) than original (7cc/rev).
So now my machine has separate relief valve set on cca. 45 bar at 18 l/min and I will put there gear pump with 12 cc/rev with relief valve.

What is better to use gear pump relief and make hose conection to tank and set old relief valve to higher value, or to plug gear pump relief valve and reset old relief valve for 28 l/min flow?

Thanks.

Regards,
Gregor

hi,
be sure that the shaft has the same # of teeth on splines and size ok.
not all the same, have seen fitted but shaft slips.
if you fit the new style pilot pump that has the built-in relief use that one.
set the old one higher approx 150 psi
and plumb up the new pilot pumps tank line to tank
adam
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello Mr. Kobelco
I have a 2005(?) ED150 S/N YH02-01384 with aprox 5200 hrs on the machine. The drive motors have been slowly loosing power over the past few months and now the machine is starting to run hot. My first thought was a restricted radiator. Radiator is clean and full of fluid. I changed the thermostat. It helped a little but still running much warmer than normal. The machine is also using more fuel. Started off only getting hot when I was heavy pushing with the dozer. Now it heats up when ever the machine is working. If you stop and bring it to half throtel the temp. guage cools way down in about a minute. The tractor runs strong for the first couple hours. Once it starts heating up the tracks SLOW down. Other functions are not noticeably affected.

I did some onboard diagnostics.
N0.24
E-1 P-1
(cold, track at full stroke) comp. 741mA 30K
meas. 742mA 29K
(hot, track at full stroke) comp. 570mA 20K
meas. 570mA 19K
No.25
E-2 P-2
(cold,track at full stroke) comp. 742mA 30K
meas. 741mA 29K
(hot, track at full stroke) comp. 575-595mA 20K
meas. 576mA 19K
Looks like I'm loosing about a third of my pressure or volume witch is how the machine is acting. Not sure what to do next. I read your post on the O rings in the pump regulators but there is no square nut on the end of my pumps :-( They are Kawasaki though. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

hi,
my thoughts at first glance...
the screens youre viewing are the psv sol on the hyd pump regulators
as you pointed out that once the machine gets hot the hyd pumps are being cut back in hyd oil flow to attempt to keep the load off the engine to try to keep
up the eng rpm and with that the eng fan speed.
its very likely that the computer is sensing a lack of power from your engine.
have you verified the engine rpm with a tach versus the eng rpm meas speed in scrn no. 2 ?
have you checked the fuel system, water in fuel tank, sediment in tank,
have you looked at all the screens in the display with key on and eng not running ?
all the hyd sensors should zero
0.4 v and 0 pressure ?

****
i would recommend trying this,...
when in the screens 24 and 25 and machine is at the point when its acting up, pumps being destroked
use a water spray bottle and cool down the fuel inj pump housing see if this changes your results
it is possible the fuel inj pump is worn out and requires overhaul and recalibration - do fuel inj too.
****

now a second thought,
on screen 14 the high prs sensors on pumps
what reads key on eng off
reads cold - full throttle, H mode, stalling over boom raise main relief ?
reads hot - stalling in same condition

cheers
adam
 

armadillo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
36
Location
Austin Tx
Yes I checked all screens with key on engine off. 0.5v-0.6v 0K on pressure sensers.
Fuel system appears good. No water in the seperator........ Will try a new filter and the water on the injector pump. There is little or no smoke from the exhaust.
Screen 14
key on engine off,, P-1 0.4mV 0K
P-2 0.5mv 0K
High idle cold,no load ,, P-1 0.5mv 6-9K flutter
P-2 0.5mV 9-11K, pretty steady at 10K
High idle warm with tracks stalled,, P-1 3.1v 316-327K
P-2 3.0v 316-326K
Sorry, didn't recheck it HOT. Thought I had found the issue with No.24 and 25

Screen 13
B-9 0.5v 0K
B-10 0.6v 1K,,, B10 would not "0" even when I moved the travel lever back and forth gently. Problem??
All so, my "mode" selector button does not function. it is stuck on H. Is there an easy fix for this?
 
Last edited:

armadillo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
36
Location
Austin Tx
The fact that the machine is burning MORE fuel I didn't think about a fuel restriction. If this is the issue,,,, I'll be a happy camper!!!
Thank you for your insight. Will let you know how it turns out.
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Yes I checked all screens with key on engine off. 0.5v-0.6v 0K on pressure sensers.
Fuel system appears good. No water in the seperator........ Will try a new filter and the water on the injector pump. There is little or no smoke from the exhaust.
Screen 14
key on engine off,, P-1 0.4mV 0K
P-2 0.5mv 0K
High idle cold,no load ,, P-1 0.5mv 6-9K flutter
P-2 0.5mV 9-11K, pretty steady at 10K
High idle warm with tracks stalled,, P-1 3.1v 316-327K
P-2 3.0v 316-326K
Sorry, didn't recheck it HOT. Thought I had found the issue with No.24 and 25

Screen 13
B-9 0.5v 0K
B-10 0.6v 1K,,, B10 would not "0" even when I moved the travel lever back and forth gently. Problem??
All so, my "mode" selector button does not function. it is stuck on H. Is there an easy fix for this?

hi,
B10 - is that key on engine off ?
or key on, engine on, pilot safety lever lock engaged or disengaged ?
you might have a bad pilot sensor depending on your answers above or sticking spool in pedal
cheers
adam
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
The fact that the machine is burning MORE fuel I didn't think about a fuel restriction. If this is the issue,,,, I'll be a happy camper!!!
Thank you for your insight. Will let you know how it turns out.

hi,
i do believe is an isuzu eng
isuzu has 2 inline fuel screens hidden inside 2 of the fuel banjo bolts
1 at the inlet of fuel transfer lift pump
1 at the inlet of fuel water/sep filter
pinch off fuel line hose, remove bolt, remove screen, wash, reinstall
just in case you are unaware
cheers
adam
 

gregor1978

Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
12
Location
Slovenia
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

I replaced old pilot pump with new one (12 cc/rev, set pressure at max rpm to 50 bar) today and problem is the same.
I think that machine works better up to certain oil temperature, beut when certain temperature leve isl reached problems is starting. Today I measured on tank surface 50deg. C and 60 on pump housing or main valve.
Problem is now that all attachent function lose power.
If I close bucket in sand than at certain load bucket just stopped moving and I could here only pump regulating to min. ( high freq. trrrrrrrrr) and the diesel dont fell it at all. Like if some kind of bypas would be opened on half way ( I see flexible hoese from pump moving when put under load). Than I could hold command to close the bucket for all day and will not close. If I lift a little boom and close a little arm than I could wery slowly load full bucked of sand.
The same is with arm, no moving at closing at high load and also with boom. But boom I think works slighty better than last time - but stil dont works as it should.

I noticed that gear pump pressure fals for cca. 4 bars (60psi) when I angage travel. At attachment use thre is not dro of pilot pressure at all. But this could be caused by pipe leakage. I saw on down side of control valve that somethink is leaking.
Culd flow gets away around travel relief valves?
I also measure highest temperature on the control valve in the middle of it. Where travel priority valve is located.

Any idea? I pay drink and dinner for solution...

Regards,
Gregor
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
Hello Mr. Kobelco,

I replaced old pilot pump with new one (12 cc/rev, set pressure at max rpm to 50 bar) today and problem is the same.
I think that machine works better up to certain oil temperature, beut when certain temperature leve isl reached problems is starting. Today I measured on tank surface 50deg. C and 60 on pump housing or main valve.
Problem is now that all attachent function lose power.
If I close bucket in sand than at certain load bucket just stopped moving and I could here only pump regulating to min. ( high freq. trrrrrrrrr) and the diesel dont fell it at all. Like if some kind of bypas would be opened on half way ( I see flexible hoese from pump moving when put under load). Than I could hold command to close the bucket for all day and will not close. If I lift a little boom and close a little arm than I could wery slowly load full bucked of sand.
The same is with arm, no moving at closing at high load and also with boom. But boom I think works slighty better than last time - but stil dont works as it should.

I noticed that gear pump pressure fals for cca. 4 bars (60psi) when I angage travel. At attachment use thre is not dro of pilot pressure at all. But this could be caused by pipe leakage. I saw on down side of control valve that somethink is leaking.
Culd flow gets away around travel relief valves?
I also measure highest temperature on the control valve in the middle of it. Where travel priority valve is located.

Any idea? I pay drink and dinner for solution...

Regards,
Gregor

hi,
usually with the mark ii, mark iii, and mark iv models
you will see on the hyd schematic that the main hyd control valve will have 4 main reliefs
2 - travel reliefs " TR1 & TR2 "
2 - attachment reliefs " MR1 & MR2 "
the travel reliefs are usually set to limit the system pressure in the travels to 5,000 psi
the attachment reliefs are usually around 4200 psi
refer to your hyd prs specs
now with these reliefs,
the lowest relief will take control
the main pumps pass by the travel reliefs first
thru the travel spool and then down on thru the main control valve to the attachment reliefs at the ends.
what is your travel pressures at when you stall the sprockets against frame with a stalling pin ?
now you also said the hose off the hyd pump was chattering...which hyd hose ?
main line or nega-con pilot hose (pi1/pi2) ?
have you measured the hyd pump case drain flow ?

adam
 

armadillo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
36
Location
Austin Tx
hi,
B10 - is that key on engine off ?
or key on, engine on, pilot safety lever lock engaged or disengaged ?
you might have a bad pilot sensor depending on your answers above or sticking spool in pedal
cheers
adam

Adam, I believe that was high idle, hydrolics warmed up, and safty lock disengaged ( ready to work )
Also my stick cylinder, the one on top of the boom, is leaking oil externally from the seal. I have had it resealed twice. First time lasted about six months second time only lasted about a month. I don't EVER "chop" with the machine but I do run a Tramac 900 hammer sometimes. are some seal kits better than others or should I look for another shop to do my cylinder repairs ??
And yes it is an Isuzu engine.
Thank you for shareing your knowledge and insights !! If you ever make it to centrial Texas I'll buy you a steak dinner :)
 
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