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Just some work pics

Raildudes dad

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
411
Location
Grand Rapids MI
I had to smile and chuckle a bit reading about your adventure hooking up in the Ritchie Yard. I've had a similar adventure. My tractor has Hendricksen spring suspension so I did my lifting with blocks and a bottle jack:(. At least mine was out in BFE where no one could see me:). My excuse is I'm a weekend trucker with my '87 Ford LTL9000 and a 25 ton Phelan lowboy for my old construction equipment hobby.

Different subject: There's a little restored Bay City like the one you lifted about 75 miles from me that the family is letting rust away I'd like to bring home.
 

clintm

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
974
Location
charlotte nc
Occupation
trucking,concrete recycling,grading, demolition
been there done that .last year when to south dakota buy way of dallas tx bobtailing with 20,000pd front axle camel back suspension mack .Took over a week three tires,two fenders,step. exhaust pipe and about 10 years of life but oh what fun it is. p.s. guess we are to dumb to quit and do something else :)
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
Location
sw missouri
You know I couldn't help myself on that old bay city. I kept walking around and around it, looking at what would need to be done, to get it running again.

I think after our sun solar flare hits, and destroys everything electronic, I can make my living digging with it.:D

They're actually going to paint it to look like a character from Thomas the Tank children's books.

It reminded me more of the Mike mulligan and his steam shovel book. I couldn't hardly stand to read that book to the kids when they were little, because at the end (spoiler alert) they dismantle the steam shovel mary ann, and make her a furnace. A children's book to make a grown man cry.

A little work from the last of the week:

20160929_095510.jpg

A nice little truss job down by the lake, I crawled back as far as I could so I wouldn't have to swing jib. The vaults run front to back clear over the back deck, 70' away or so.

20160929_095522.jpg

Had to take the yellow 25 (which I don't like running as well as my white one), the white one's on jacks right now with a bunch of metal shavings in a 1 yr old, reman, 3rd member. We're going to do a little steering control work while its down.

20160929_132233.jpg


Saturday morning-Finishing up the school playground, had two of these roofs to set. Needed the 35 ton, this one was 95' away.

20161001_103349.jpg
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
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sw missouri
clintm, that had to be quite a ride. Bobtailing with a spring mack that far would be a adventure. At least your gearing probably kept you slow enough to tame the ride?

I will say this about the Western Star, it seems really well built. My international, that's a little shorter wheelbase (but still air ride), shakes and rattles everywhere you go. That western star is solid and quiet.

You can see my international setting beside the new trailer. I pulled it up for the wet kit, I had to hook it up to the trailer, just seeing what the trailer worked like, and I don't have my wet kit mounted yet on the western star (like a kid with a new toy).

The trailer has its own hydraulic tank, but no pony motor. I think we'll pull that tank, and just have tanks on the trucks.

We're also looking for a heavy front axle for the western star, I'm having a little trouble finding one with the right frame spacing. I found one, but its wedge brake, and I think finding the right spider might be a pain, and that old is probably worn out.

I've found a newer one from a fire truck, but the axle spacing is wrong. Its got a big enough flat spot to drill new holes for the ubolts at my spacing, but haven't ever drilled a front axle like that. I know it doesn't have very many miles.

Anyone ever drilled a front axle for new ubolts?

The fun really doesn't ever end.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Is that 25t missing the cw on those last posts. Weight issue in your state?

Also most off your pictures the cribbing makes me cringe. Not cause it looks unsafe in anyway. It does however look like a fair amount of work. And I don't enjoy particularly enjoy that kind of work. I've considered hooking outrigger controls up on the frame so you don't have to hop in and out the crane when your trying to walk a crane up onto 3ft of cribbing. That's one really nice feature on the 110t. Set it up without getting into the cab once.
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
Location
sw missouri
That grove was offered both ways, with or without ctw (different chart). My old boss (in iowa) bought one brand new, without ctw, then bought the ctw a year later with a new chart from grove.

This one has never had it, no brackets even for mounting it (there is a small plate under the winches, 24x24x4" approx). It really could use counterweight, you don't notice it too much on main, but if you get jib on, over the side it really rides up.

I've been keeping my eyes out for a used one, I had one found up in wisconsin, but he would never give me a $ amount, and I wasn't driving that far without knowing a price.

As far as the throwing wood, Ozark mountains have been a learning curve for me. I've set some crane's up in some pretty crooked places, and that's why the first thing I look at in a crane is outrigger span. Second thing is outrigger length/stroke of jack. Also frame ridgidity. Those grove AT's (at700's) like impact used to have, look great for getting around in rough conditions, but the jacks being at each end of the carrier is a no- go for crooked conditions.

That's where the 25's I have really shine, they've got a narrow footprint, and long jacks, and a stiff frame. On my 35, the jacks are shorter, but the span is small (for its chart) and the frame is also stiff. It's more boom heavy- you will have to swing over the rear and scope out some, to bring a front jack way up. My 70 ton doesn't have very long jacks, but the frame is so stiff, plus single stage outrigger beams, its not hard to work forward and back to raise it (it also has outside controls:cool:).

The one I most wish had outside controls, is my rt. It has some frame flex, the jacks start out higher off the ground, a 4' wider span, the highest cab to climb into, and I take it to the worst spots. The only thing nice on it, is no crane sticking outside the jacks, being so short lengthwise compared to a truck crane. 4 wheel steering and drive is great.

Double stage outrigger beams, and too much frame flex, kill you for setting up in a crooked spot. Hence my dislike for many boom trucks. One of the latest crane magazines showed a new elliot or altec custom built for a tree outfit with extra long jacks. I've also seen terex's like yours outfitted with taller jacks (from a rt maybe?). I ran a 85 ton AT (gmk4070) down here and the active suspension is also a game changer for setting up, its just a lot of moving parts (very $).

And I do ride around with a forest of wood with me.;) And I've got more at the shop when I run out.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Well how much is a cw worth to you? Got a tms250a at the shop that's really beyond any help. It runs and operates fine. The swing bearing is shot and it's ugly as sin. Robbed the boom cylinder and jib last week. Might make you a heck of a deal on the whole crane.:)

If there's any parts you need for one of yours let me know. And I see what that part looks like on that crane.
 

crane operator

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Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
Location
sw missouri
Another funny one on slopes. The bay city unload pictured above had a little slope to it, the truck driver borrowed some blocks to chock the truck. He was worried about his brakes holding. We had to raise the boom up on the trailer, and while we were doing that, he started unchaining it.

I caught him before he loosened the up hill chains, explaining that if the crane decided to walk off, all we could do, until we were hooked up, is watch it go click click click, off the back of the trailer. He got kind of a white look on his face. We also chained the house to the under carriage, keeping it from swinging. I left the uphill chains on until I had it picked up, then swung the crane forward to take off those chains.

It can also get interesting unloading on slopes, things that load fine on flat ground, load and unload odd on a slope. When unloading, I'll often leave a chain on (maybe loose) until I have it, I also won't release tanks on a trailer until they have chains on it.
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
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sw missouri
Tearing down a neon sign, had just enough boom with dead stick out. I put it out thinking for sure I'd be 5' short, have to take it in, put on jib, then put it back out. Got lucky.


20161006_100729.jpg

20161006_102333.jpg

Different business going in, old sign down, new sign going up in a few weeks.

20161006_102726.jpg

20161006_113356.jpg
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
Location
sw missouri
Sunday morning work. They tried to lift this tank on Saturday, and shucked their hydraulic pump that runs their jacks. I set a different pump up there for them.

20161009_091458.jpg

20161009_091510.jpg

They build the tank sides and lower bowl 1/2 on those little green stands. They got up about 5' when their pump quit.

20161009_091514.jpg

The electric over hydraulic pump is in that steel lifting cage.

20161009_094551.jpg

I stopped on the way out and took this picture, they were up about 12' in the time it took me to tear down. They will bring in a bigger crane to set the inner bottom bowl and the roof.
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
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sw missouri
Also got to a truck parts man this week. Picked up a heavy front axle and a headache rack for the western star. His yard has a little bit of everything scattered around.

20161007_082249.jpg

Came up with a pretty nice headache rack, just oxidized a little.

20161007_132630.jpg

Got a wet kit and tank to mount. Replacing the bent rear frame attachment with some c channel. I also put a flat plate on the rear, for where the detach support arm pushes down.

20161007_132659.jpg

Also doing bearings and seals on the new trailer. The hot axle on my trip home was set too tight. The bearing on the opposite side was too loose, it had actually worn a bad area in the outer race.

20161007_132733.jpg

We're going to do all the bearings and seals, that way I'll know what I have.
 

BobCatBob

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Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Chicago
I know nothing of operating a crane, just working on the one I have. Looking at your lifts, how do you determine how much boom angle, boom length can be used for a particular weight? The load chart I have for the Galion 150 shows distance from center line (of the pedestal) and weight, but nothing about boom length and angle.

So if I'm extended out the full length, capacity of the crane (60 ft) and angled up to the max (about 70 degrees).....according to the load chart, I can lift far more than I would be comfortable with ....21,000. Is this correct? I'm not an operator nor will ever operate the crane beyond short or light lifts for myself......as I'm not licensed nor experienced.....what am I reading into this?

There is a load chart on post #39......https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?36402-Galion-150-Refurbish/page3.
 
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lantraxco

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Jan 1, 2009
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Elsewhen
Actually assuming the three section boom, about 19,000 with the outriggers down as with everything extended you can't get inside an 18' radius. See the line on the chart between 19,000 and 21,875? That's your "All out and all up" cutoff. I think, lol.
 

crane operator

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sw missouri
Bob, on your crane it doesn't matter how much boom you have out. The capacity won't change based on boom length. Boom angle doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is radius from center of rotation, to center of gravity of the load.

Most of your down cab rt's and carry deck cranes are rated like that. If yours is a 3 section power boom, and you didn't put all the boom out, so you could get within 10' radius, you could pick 30,000. You'd have to have enough parts of line in your load block.

All the old galions, and broderson carry decks that I've been around, have no problem doing charted capacities. If you hurt one, or get light(tippy), you're waaayyy over chart.

All you need to know to run your crane right up to chart is a exact weight of the object being lifted, and the radius.

If you run with the outriggers up-the load chart is actually only 75% of capacity (25% safety margin built in). Outriggers down will be 85% of capacity (15% safety margin). The manufacturers do this to keep you from going over capacity.



Bigger cranes use charts like this:

View attachment TMS300LP-Capacities.pdf

If you have marks on the boom for boom length, and a boom angle indicator, and a scale (so you know weight of the object being lifted) you're golden.

If its just a standard house truss job, I may not go look at it before hand. If its something close to capacity or odd, I'll go look at it before hand.

Most of the time I'll just eyeball for height, and step off for distance. If its close to capacity, I'll stretch a tape measure. I look at probably 1/2 the jobs before we'll send out a crane.

I ran through some example lifts for evans (who's learning in africa, and doesn't have a scale). It gives you kind of a idea how I will plan a lift, but its primarily a tutorial for him, to run without a scale and stay somewhat safe. You can see them here: (post #51)

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...-good-is-a-Grove-TMS-475-for-a-beginner/page4
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
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sw missouri
The line lantraxco is referring to in the chart isn't the all out and up cutoff (sorry lantraxco- good guess though). Capacities above that line are based on the structural strength of the crane. Below the line is based on the stability of the crane.

To be basic about it, if you're above the line (inside 16' radius), and go over full capacity, the crane breaks. If you're below the line (over 16' radius), and go over full capacity the crane tips.

The manufacture tells you this, because otherwise operators think they can pick until it tips, but inside of 16' radius, you're crane won't tip, it will break first. Both events are bad/ not recommended.
 

BobCatBob

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Chicago
Thank you Crane Operator. I do have a scale (30,000 Lb limit, not calibrated , but mechanical vs. electronic)....angle indicator (took off boom while rebuilding, but will place back on).....though I haven't marked the boom for length. Easy way to do this? Paint on some stripes?

IMG_0033.JPG. Picture of scale...was testing new cable.
 

BobCatBob

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Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Chicago
Oh.....my old crane has no leveling system.....all seat of the pants. I have a precision bubble level accurate to 1/4 degree.....worth mounting or overkill? What surface should I use as a datum to zero the machine. ? (Not sure what's straight at that accuracy).

Awesome tutorial!
 

lantraxco

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Jan 1, 2009
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Elsewhen
The line lantraxco is referring to in the chart isn't the all out and up cutoff (sorry lantraxco- good guess though). Capacities above that line are based on the structural strength of the crane. Below the line is based on the stability of the crane.

To be basic about it, if you're above the line (inside 16' radius), and go over full capacity, the crane breaks. If you're below the line (over 16' radius), and go over full capacity the crane tips.

The manufacture tells you this, because otherwise operators think they can pick until it tips, but inside of 16' radius, you're crane won't tip, it will break first. Both events are bad/ not recommended.

:rolleyes: :popcorn
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,324
Location
sw missouri
Any bubble level around 2-3" diameter will work for level. The thing to have level is the turntable bearing. I usually level the crane with a 2'-4' level going two directions on the bearing, then mount a bubble level in the cab, using adjusting bolts to have the bubble match the bearing .

I'll take a picture of one tomorrow. Something like this will work. I would probably look for something a little more durable, but you get the idea.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171557837991?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

My rt bubble is actually only 1" diameter, but I don't like it, its too small.

I just have some reflective tape and 3"vinyl number stickers, on the sides or bottom of a couple of the crane booms to indicate boom length. I'll mount it side or bottom, depending on what you can see from the cab.

Make sure when you mount your boom angle indicator, your crane is level, and the boom is level, when setting at zero. You can check it with a degree indicator.

Honestly, I would mount the boom angle indicator, and a bubble in the cab, but you don't have to put boom length on the boom (most cranes like yours aren't marked). If you need to know your capacity, it will be easier to get out and measure your radius, than to look at your boom length, then compare it to the range diagram chart. Then figure out from your angle, where your at for radius, and then come up with your radius capacity number.

It's easy to be off in the small range diagram picture, and if your really pushing chart, you'll want to be sure. You've got a lot of places in the chart where you're losing 4,000lbs of chart in a 2' change of radius. 2' isn't hard to be off using boom length, angle, and transposing to that small picture (from the seat).

If you pop out and stretch a tape measure, you won't be off 2'.

From 16' to 22' of radius, you go from almost 22,000lbs of chart, to less than 14,000. That's almost 1/2 your chart disappearing (in 6' of radius). And you can't see the difference between 18' of radius and 20' from the seat, but there's 3,100lbs difference in chart. Which is a big change relative to capacity, ie dropping from 19,000 to 15,800. Losing 3,000 lbs of chart isn't a big deal in a 140 ton crane if your going from 105,000lbs to 102,000lbs of chart, but you'd really notice it in yours unloading something off a semi.

Boom length is only really important when your capacity changes by boom length, which your crane doesn't, but if you want to put it on, go for it, more info never hurts.

On repetitive lifts, you will use your boom angle indicator, keeping your boom length the same. Ex. the truss pile is at 45deg. the first truss on the house is at 30 deg, and your coming up about 2 deg per truss as you come toward you across the house. That info makes it easier to come back to the same place on repetitive lifts.

If marking boom length. Boom length is measured from the center of the heel pins (bottom pivot pins) out. Not from the bottom of the boom.
 
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