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Johndeer 310 se trains kicking out

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by chris allen, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Machine opperateing seems ok except driveing, drained trains an replaced filter, drives for lil but then stops, seems to be weak on driveing power too, checked both neutral kick out switch’s on gear shift an joystick, both are fine, parking brake even kicks on too when it acts up, Was trying to read trains pressure but can’t seem to read anything on gauges even when it does take gear. I saw on rear of valves there is a few ports to put test fittings in, Thinks there’s a p4 ,pf,pr,p10 I think. Well when it was driveing while jacked off the ground I didn’t read anything while hooked to pr nor pf. Was guessing the we’re forward an reverse packs. Nor sure if it’s a charge pressure issue sticking valve, I do have power going to the 3 solenoids on top of trains when it does act up. So when it do drive forward nor reverse I do have voltage there an even the neutralize solenoid is still energized aswell
     
  2. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Need a machine serial number. Is it a manual trans or a powershift trans?
     
  3. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Sorry for lack of information, serial is 888885. An yes it’s a power shift , thx for ur time an help
     
  4. JL Sargent

    JL Sargent Senior Member

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    Have you checked trans fluid level? Also, when it's acting up, how does the fluid actually look on the dipstick?
     
  5. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Played around this morning with some gauges. Plugged into the p10 port an it reads 130 psi (guessing pump pressure cause it’s constant). Sounds low if so. Also p4 is showing 45 psi while driveing forward, an p4 shows 50 psi when either one of the neutralizer switch’s are mashed or parking brake switch applied , so I guess p4 is neutral kick out valve, Is the spin on charge pump filter the suction filter , in parts break down I didn’t see a suction tube with screen like manual shifts
     
  6. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Fluid levels appear to be ok. Don’t really have any bubbles from
    Cavitation
     
  7. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Also did test run up the road this morning, it has kicked back out of gear this morning but it barely pulls in 3 gear an want even try to pull off in 4th. Tryed to dead head tractor agains something to see if it spins a tire, Well just sits there an forward press holds at 40 psi area an pump pressure holds at 145 psi. Low pump pressure or can it be worn clutch pack piston seals?
     
  8. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    What is the pressure at the "PS" port with transmission hot and engine rpm at 1500? Also, when it quits moving does it quit like you pushed a clutch out button, or does it quit gradually until it stops moving?
     
  9. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Pulled control valve off an inspected. Found a spool that was a lil scratched. Polished it all up an reassembled everything after good cleaning an found were the ps port was an hooked into it after all back together. I’m reading rite at 200 psi on ps. An still round only 40 psi on pf. Still low power , dead head again ya wall an want spin. Gauges hold steady
     
  10. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Ok finally got it to act up again with being hooked into the ps port. Well when it stops driveing for the few seconds the ps port is dropping from 200 to bout 100 psi. An pf is dropping from 45 to 0 psi, then it kicks rite back in. Like a valve is unloading or something.
     
  11. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    PS (transmission system pressure) needs to be 232 - 276 psi. You need to concentrate on that. If that is not correct then everything else downstream will be affected. Did you change the transmission filter? Cut open the transmission filter? Drain your transmission oil. Look into the drain plug hole. You should be able to see the suction pick up tube for the pump. There is a course screen in the end. Is it plugged with debris?

    310SE Suction Screen.png
     
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  12. JL Sargent

    JL Sargent Senior Member

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    Chris, your symptoms do sound familiar. Maybe drain your transmission oil through a turkey fry oil filter and see what debris is there.
     
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  13. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Just read pressure again, My ps press is 20 psi at idle an high idle is only 160 psi, sometimes with machine off the ground it just drops ps pressure an quits driveing, an while still holding accelerator down it kicks back in, Suction screen is clear of debris. This is getting mind boggling, makes me
    Wanta snatch valve body back off an go back threw it, like I had mentioned there was valve from under the body that had a heavy spring behind it that had marks all around spool valve on the end like it had been binding up , but I polished it up to we’re it slid freely an reinstalled to body,
     
  14. JL Sargent

    JL Sargent Senior Member

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    I would be surprised if your control valve is dumping 200+ psi at idle. So right now your parking brake is on and off as pressure moves above and below 160? You've gone through the control valve already, I wouldn't be in a hurry to do that again. The charge pump itself might not be working properly. Sometimes they strip out at gear, or pumps drive shaft breaks, or strip out at converter end. Have you checked charge pump flow? It's supposed to be above 20 GPM as I recall.
     
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  15. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    No have not check flow, I don’t have any sort of flow meter, I have had the charge pump off an took apart, both gears seam to be in good shap an bushings don’t have any slip in them either, Hadn’t pulled shaft all the way out from convertor to view other side, I have been caught driveing around here on the yard an then it decides to crap out on me an then I’m blocking the rd, so basically I ran the screws in on the parking brake assembly so I can push myself outta way. But yes brakes were being applied when press dropped
     
  16. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Yes JL that can happen.

    Chris, did you change the filter and cut open the old one to inspect for debris?

    If you had the transmission pump off and it is OK, did the o-rings under the pump get replaced? There has been issues with those o-rings. 20 psi at idle with 160 psi at full throttle is indicative of a leak somewhere. You don't have enough flow at idle to overcome the leakage so the pressure drops and when you rev the engine up flow increases enough to overcome most of the leakage allowing the pressure to rise. Those machines also had issues with the control valve and duct plate gaskets failing. That would be the big plate mounted to the back of the transmission under the control valves and pump. Also there is an orifice in the plate that if it comes loose it could give you the symptoms you have (see picture).

    But before you go through the work of doing that plate is the 160 psi at fast throttle steady or erratic? If erratic (I would try this anyway) try overfilling your transmission with about 2-3 gallons of oil and see if your pressure comes up. If it does then the suction tube is cracked. If it doesn't then you may be heading for the duct plate. Just don't leave the oil level high as transmission damage can occur.



    310SE Orifice.png 310SE Gaskets.png 310SE Pressure regulator.png
     
  17. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    The main press regulator was the main spool that had scarring around the end, it wasn’t really stuck but it did have some heavy scratches on the end edges , looked as if metal had be working around it, i slicked it off an checked in bore of valve an seems ok, yes when filter was cut open there were gritty substance in it kinda like dirt or sand. Was any metal debris tho, An yes we replaced orings on charge pump, an when the machine is running at high idle (while off the ground) I’d watch my gauges at 160 just drop off then suddenly kick back in an do this few times,
     
  18. JL Sargent

    JL Sargent Senior Member

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    It's been a couple of weeks now, did you get this sorted out? What did you end up doing?
     
  19. chris allen

    chris allen Senior Member

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    Still acting up on me. Pressures still seam to be low, motor had spun a bearing so now we doing motor work
     
  20. JL Sargent

    JL Sargent Senior Member

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    Well that stinks! Hate that happened. Good luck.