John Deere 310B Hydraulic Issues and Metal In Transmission Screen

[Scout_1969]

Some Background:
Had machine approx. 2 years, changed hydraulic filters when first purchased, machine was at about 3500 hours and I have put approx. 300 hours on it. Replaced pressure control valve o-rings about 30 hours ago.

Problem:
Hydraulics began to be slow recently, and jerky. Steering doesn't seem to have full power and when starting actually turns itself with weight off front axle. Forward and reverse work fine, but I did notice when climbing a pile of dirt while piling more up it would sometimes (not often) sort of stop pulling and not stall.

Work/Troubleshooting so far:
I had someone check pressures and operated machine and he said the main hydraulic pump was bad. Took pump off and sent to rebuild shop to find out the pump was not the problem, however, they recommended a rebuild kit be installed and said it would be at 95% when done. The pump has been into before as someone numbered the 8 or so large nuts.

After sending out the pump, I removed the transmission screen and found metal shavings of all types and one washer, see pictures. All were removed with a magnet, some have a copper/bronze look. Since I didn't clean trans. screen when I got it, I don't know if the debris may have been from a previous failure/repair.

My plan at this point:
Final clean debris out of transmission, maybe flush with diesel or blow out with air. Put on new filters/fluid, put pump on and operate a little and change fluid and filters and clean screen and see if I get more debris and of course check operation. Repeat as necessary.

Questions:

• Is flushing or blowing out a good idea?
  
• Am I on the right track? Or what other troubleshooting might I try?
  
• Where is the charge pump? I cannot find it by that name in my parts book or online, a picture and/link/part number would be appreciated.
  
• Are there any links, pictures or videos on how to split a machine?
  
• I guess if I split the machine, it probably a good time to inspect/change the clutch brakes? Any other things?
  
• What do the metal shavings look like they are from? The slotted washer?

 

[willie59]

Scout, I'm having a problem resizing parts diagrams, and I'm no Deere 310B expert, but I'm near certain on those machines the charge pump is inside tranny. It produces pressure to operate fwd/rev clutch packs, brakes, and oil charge for main hyd pump. If you pulled that strainer screen out of the tranny and found all this debris in there, it's possible the strainer was clogged with this debris. That would affect the operation of drive as well as main hyd operation.

That debris could be from previous failure, could be accumulation of wear debris and no service by previous owner, could be something is in process of failure in tranny, it's really hard for you to tell. I can't remember if you can get the top cover off the 310B tranny housing, even if it takes some work to do it. But if you could take off that top cover you could get a better look at what's going on in there, and maybe be able to rinse the tranny good to start fresh with new oil.

 

[Scout_1969]

Willie, thanks for the reply.

I've seen the transmission cover in the manual, I'll check it out on the machine.

I am puzzled that I can't find the trans. pump in the manual, it must have another name.

I guess rinsing with diesel would be ok?

Any idea what the items in the picture might be from? (I looked in the manual and can't find the slotted washer)

 

[alrman]

Just a shot in the dark Scout,
Washer looks like something I've seen on dipsticks :beatsme
BTW - your post is first class!

 

[Scout_1969]

alrman, thanks for the reply and kind words.

I will check the dipstick this evening that's a very likely place.

 

[Scout_1969]

alrman, you are correct.

There is a tab tacked onto the dipstick that looks like something broke off and the washer has a corresponding bend like it broke off. It looks like it serves to center the dipstick. Can't remember if it was ever attached. The part detail doesnt clearly show it like a picture would but I know mine doesn't have it, see picture.

Great work, Thanks again alrman.:salute

 

[Scout_1969]

willie59...I looked at the trans. and it looks like I could have good access for by removing the top plate, it's pretty large. BTW, I did find the trans. pump in the manual. Thanks.

 

[willie59]

Good to hear you've located the charge pump. Not sure if removing top cover allows access to it or how much service to it would be available. There are a number of seal rings that seal where pipes connect to charge pump, and pipe that leaves pump and go to reverser control valve on side of tranny. If you could get that top cover off and pull a drain plug in tranny, you might be able to dump some diesel or kerosene in there and rinse things a bit.

For other member that would like to view the components in question, here's a couple of diagrams,


Charge pump (5) and bearing housing (9) with oil passages for charge pump.









Oil lines that connect to bearing housing to supply oil in and out of charge pump.

 

[Scout_1969]

I cant find aftermarket online or a JD dealer online showing the trans. pump (RE13915) or the dipstick (AT59085). Just curious at this point, dipstick I can fix, pump I may not be so lucky. I will try the dealer tomorrow.

 

[willie59]

You may not need a charge pump. If that strainer you pulled out of tranny was clogged with all that debris, it would affect operation of charge pump and all other functions. If you can get the tranny housing somewhat cleaned out, then fill with fresh fluid, you're machine may work quite well.

If you do have to replace that charge pump, I would wager you would have to split the tractor, just don't know for certain.

 

[OldandWorn]

arlman....great catch!

I was curious so I looked at my older 410 parts manual. Now I need to look at my stick and see if the round thing is still there.

Scout.....does this image help ya? My 410 has the same dipstick part number as you posted.

 

[Scout_1969]

Willie59, looks like I will be busy this weekend, with some direction at least.

O&W, it sure does help, that's a clear zoomed in image.

I will report back with some results (probably more questions) gentlemen. Thanks, what a great resource.

 

[Scout_1969]

The trans. screen taken out has a plastic frame and the one I bought from a JD Ag dealer is metal on ends and all screen. It may be the decal on the box is covering up the old part number for the 310A 'R53169' now using the AR26375 and I got some 'New Old Stock'.

I know they can be cleaned but I thought I would have piece of mind.

Same part number AR26375, #9 below, I don't know which one is the latest version or best. It would seem that the plastic is but I'm not sure.

Questions:
Is the metal one ok?

Would one of those magnet tubes that go inside the screen be worthwhile?

 

[Scout_1969]

Other Questions:

>How does the fluid flow through the trans. screen?

>Through the screen from trans. to filter?

>Is the fluid pressurized from the trans. pump?

 

[willie59]

The screen is to prevent large debris from going through trans pump and destroying it. After fluid leaves trans pump it goes to the reverser control valve on the right side of tranny. The reverser control valve regulates the amount of pressure that operates fwd/rev clutch packs and brakes. And if I'm not mistaken the oil leaves the reverser valve and feeds oil charge to main pump. If someone knows for sure hopefully they'll correct me.

As for the screen, either will work fine because they're not really a filter, just a screen for heavy debris. The advantage to the plastic screen is if there is a build up of debris at screen it can make removal difficult, the plastic screen will deflect and bend/flex around the junk where the metal screen remains more rigid.

 

[Scout_1969]

Today I removed the top cover of the transmission, removed more of the same type of metal shavings and flushed trans. with diesel in a pump up sprayer, followed by compressed air. Removed all of the plugs and collected the waste and strained it to see what I got out. I didn't see anything that looked broken or damaged.


I also removed the vertical hyd. filter and installed a new one. The old filter had some of the finer shavings on the outside and a little of a silver paste. I'll cut it open tomorrow.

Tried to install the transmission screen (metal) and had difficulty getting it seated. I could only get it a little more than flush with the outside and not just enough to get a thread or two but I didn't want to 'press' it in with the fitting.

Questions:

>Should the trans. screen seat far enough to get the fitting mostly started?

>Is there a special tool to help with installation of the trans. screen? I have some old wooden pool cues that I was thinking of making something out of.

>I am still trying to understand the flow; does the short hose between the horizontal filter and the trans. screen fitting have pressure or suction?
I ask cause the old hose seemed a little collapsed making it look like it may have suction.

 

[willie59]

I'm not familiar enough with the 310 to know the fluid path myself. As for the screen, have you looked in the hole with a flashlight? Might be some debris at the very back where screen tube seats.

 

[Scout_1969]

That's a good point, I may have missed some debris with the magnet. I maybe able to look at it with a mirror and light, can't clear line of sight. This would be nice http://www.lowes.com/pd_47656-70-DC...=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=camera&facetInfo=

 

[OldandWorn]

Scout, I'm not familiar with the system either but would like to know for my 410 which sounds similar. Does debris collect on the outside or inside of the screen? I have never seen a screen yet so I don't know if there is a hole in the end of it. If the debris is on the outside of the screen I would say that the fluid exits the screen into the horizontal filter and then goes into the center of that filter. If debris is inside the screen then the flow would be reversed I believe. The short hose on mine looks like low pressure heater hose so I would say suction or possibly low pressure from the internal charge pump.

 

[Scout_1969]

O&W, debris are on the outside. Yes there are holes in each end. I was thinking that a suction hose would be a heavy wall hose to keep it from collapsing.