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JLG 120HX brake problem

Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
I have a JLG 120 that has been held hostage at a contractors equipment rental place two doors down from a building I am working on. They have had it for 3 1/2 weeks and I am tired of not being able to use it so I figured someone could help me. My machine is a 1998 120 HX serial #0300037940. My problem is when I was driving it the brakes locked up and I could not move the machine again. THe company came over and unlocked the hubs, moved it to their lot next door and they have said for almost a month they are too busy to get to it. I would like to go over and fix it myself just don't know where to start. Only other issue with my machine is the idle will stay high and not go down to save fuel economy. Any help is appreciated.
 

willie59

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Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
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Service Manager
Will the rental company allow you to come on their yard and work on the machine? They might have insurance issues with that, be sure to ask them if it's permissible. The first thing I would do is open the lower control box, connect a test light or volt meter to terminal #31 of main terminal strip (brake circuit), have a helper start machine at platform controls and operate fwd and rev drive, see if you then have voltage on term 31. If you do, likely a problem with brake solenoid valve. Locate solenoid valve and check that voltage is getting there when drive is operated.

If no voltage at either points, problem farther upstream, either at platform controls or problem with cable going up boom.

Does your machine have the Deutz diesel in it?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
Willie,
Here is where I am at right now. I worked on the machine today in their yard. They allowed me to because it has been there so long without them looking at it. I tried the voltage on #31. It was not giving me voltage at the ground platform portable drive controller. After further investigation I traced the black and red brake wire to the drive switch on the portable controller and opened up the box. As soon as I opened it I saw that it had a 3amp 1N508 Diod that was cracked and the wire seperated. So I figured that was the problem. Moved to the Platform and checked for voltage and had it there. Tested and it worked forward and backward. Shut the machine down to fool with some other small items. Started the machine back up and tried to move it again and it would not move. Tired all of the other items on the board, cylinder up and down, rotate, boom in and out and they all worked. When I would move the joystick it would not even make the engine move, like it was not getting power. Checked the joystick and no power to pin #5 and #6. So I figured it could be a joystick going bad. When I woudl try to move the machine with the ground controller, the hydrolics were trying to push the machine and the engine would labor but the brakes were holding it from going anywhere. On the platform then the joystick for the forward and reverse stopped moving the machine, the joystick power was not engaging with the engine so you would not hear the labor of the motor and hydrolics trying to move the machine like the ground controller did. I got frustrated and moved back to the ground controller after a visit to Radio Shack to get a 1N5408 1000v 3amp rectifier diod. The did not have the exact part but they did have a 3amp 400v rectifier diod so I got it hoping that it would work. Came back and installed the rectifier diod in and nothing. I was really thinking it would now work as the 3amp diod was on the red and black wire that controls the brake. Now very confused why it didn't unless I have to have a 1000v rectifier diod to work. (I ordered a pack of four today on Amazon just in case). Now being frustrated I went up to the platform to give it another look. Started the machine and guess what.... The drive started working again. Now very confused. I spoke to guy at JLG today and he helped with some of my trouble shooting as I am not that technical, but now I am wondering when a joystick goes bad does it sometimes work and sometimes not. The company where I have the machine parked, ordered me a re-man joystick which may be in tomorrow and I am going to try to install it and see if the machine keeps working. I was thinking that maybe it's not a joystick issue and maybe a short in the line which is sometimes making contact and other times not. Don't know at this point. Any advice is appreciated.
 

barklee

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
903
Location
ohio
Willie,
Here is where I am at right now. I worked on the machine today in their yard. They allowed me to because it has been there so long without them looking at it. I tried the voltage on #31. It was not giving me voltage at the ground platform portable drive controller. After further investigation I traced the black and red brake wire to the drive switch on the portable controller and opened up the box. As soon as I opened it I saw that it had a 3amp 1N508 Diod that was cracked and the wire seperated. So I figured that was the problem. Moved to the Platform and checked for voltage and had it there. Tested and it worked forward and backward. Shut the machine down to fool with some other small items. Started the machine back up and tried to move it again and it would not move. Tired all of the other items on the board, cylinder up and down, rotate, boom in and out and they all worked. When I would move the joystick it would not even make the engine move, like it was not getting power. Checked the joystick and no power to pin #5 and #6. So I figured it could be a joystick going bad. When I woudl try to move the machine with the ground controller, the hydrolics were trying to push the machine and the engine would labor but the brakes were holding it from going anywhere. On the platform then the joystick for the forward and reverse stopped moving the machine, the joystick power was not engaging with the engine so you would not hear the labor of the motor and hydrolics trying to move the machine like the ground controller did. I got frustrated and moved back to the ground controller after a visit to Radio Shack to get a 1N5408 1000v 3amp rectifier diod. The did not have the exact part but they did have a 3amp 400v rectifier diod so I got it hoping that it would work. Came back and installed the rectifier diod in and nothing. I was really thinking it would now work as the 3amp diod was on the red and black wire that controls the brake. Now very confused why it didn't unless I have to have a 1000v rectifier diod to work. (I ordered a pack of four today on Amazon just in case). Now being frustrated I went up to the platform to give it another look. Started the machine and guess what.... The drive started working again. Now very confused. I spoke to guy at JLG today and he helped with some of my trouble shooting as I am not that technical, but now I am wondering when a joystick goes bad does it sometimes work and sometimes not. The company where I have the machine parked, ordered me a re-man joystick which may be in tomorrow and I am going to try to install it and see if the machine keeps working. I was thinking that maybe it's not a joystick issue and maybe a short in the line which is sometimes making contact and other times not. Don't know at this point. Any advice is appreciated.

I am not an expert either but it sounds to me like you have an intermittent green goblin. I wonder if you inspected the boom cable for defects/ gouges?
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Yes, until you get some consistency with the problem, it can be difficult to pinpoint what's causing the problem. It could be joystick, could be cable going down boom. Not sure about the remote box yet, will have to look further into that. But I wouldn't focus on the remote box just yet, until you fix the problem of it not working proper from platform controls. But do look your cables over very good, look for any bad spots in them.

It is good that it did work for a moment, that would confirm that brake solenoid valve is operational as they don't typically crap out then start working again. We'll see what happens when they install the new joystick controller.

BTW, does your machine have OEM or P/Q controllers? Does it have Deutz engine?

And one more question, when you purchased the machine from the rental company, did they show you the procedure for testing the overload system before using the machine for each shift?
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
Yes I have a Deutz engine.

I am not sure about the OEM or P/Q controllers. They look like originals. THe factory had one rebuild joystick for $200 or a new one for $895. Can you guess which one I chose?

I never got anything on a proceedure from the rental company for testing. Any advise here is appreciated.

I will check the cables all out to make sure no shorts are there. Thank you again for all of the info and advice it is apprecaited.
 

willie59

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Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
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Knoxville TN
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Service Manager
Since it has the Deutz engine, should be the F4L912. With that application, engine will never be at an "idle" speed, it will only have two engine speeds; low speed (for operating boom functions) = 1800 rpm, and high speed (used during drive) = 2500 rpm.

You are required to test the overload system on the machine each time you put it in service, or begin each work shift with machine. With any brand aerial, whenever you get over 80 foot of boom length, they are unstable because the boom is so long. Even though that machine weighs 44,000 lb, that boom still creates a lot of leverage. If they made it heavy enough to provide sufficient counterweight for boom the machine would be too heavy to be practical in operating on jobsites as well as transporting. So the trade off of workablility and stability is to design a system that prevents machine from being tipped.

Compared to some other brands that use very complex electronic gizmos and CPU controllers (which go nuts on occasion and shut down operations), the 120HX has a very simple system to monitor overload. The primary system/operation monitor is mounted in the rear of the boom underneath the rear boom cover. It's a box that contains a cable reel with an attached potentiometer to monitor boom length (extension) and an angle sensor (boom angle). These two components send varying voltage inputs to controller inside lower control box. Whenever the controller gets inputs from the two sensors that would be an area of instablility (boom length and boom angle) it lights the warning lights on upper/lower control panels and will ultimately prevent boom extension and boom down, preventing tip over.

In the case that primary system fails, there's a double redundant system to "back up" the primary system. It consists of two switches in the lower turntable base. One is a mechanical switch, the other is a proximity switch. When boom is in low angle positions, and the primary system failed, as you extend boom the weight of the boom will cause lower house to tilt on pivots. At a certain point, it will activate the two switches. If the mechanical switch is faulty, the proximity switch will be back up, or vice versa. The chances that all three systems fail at the same time, primary, mechanical, and proximity switches, is nearly not possible.

Now that you know the nuts and bolts of the system, the overload test is the procedure to test these components to make sure they're working properly. The operators manual gives you the procedure. It's very simple, and only takes a few minutes. If you don't have the operators manual (shame on rental company if they didn't provide one), you can download manuals from the JLG website.

Also, at the back of operators manual is a "Transfer of Ownership" form. You should fill out this form and mail it to JLG. Then if there's any issues with the machine, any updates that need to be performed, they will forward you the information.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
thanks for all of the info and explanation of the capacity and overload systems. I am going to put on the new joystick tomorrow and test all of the connections and look at the cables. I will keep you informed.
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
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Knoxville TN
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Service Manager
Hopefully the new controller will get the machine working and off the rental lot. But keep in mind, if it's a PQ controller, even though it's "pre-adjusted", in most cases, they have to be adjusted to work properly on the machine and function that it's operating.

BTW, tell me you are going to familiarize yourself with it's operation and test the overload system. :)
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
I may get back to you on the adjustments. I have had the unit for almost two years now so I am familiar with the unit. I just never checked the system before I used it like you suggest and I think it is a great way to check safety as I am very concerned about safety always.

Have a great night!!
 

willie59

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Dec 21, 2008
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Knoxville TN
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Service Manager
Well, it's more than just a great way to check, it's something that should be done religiously. Like I said, any brand machine with greater than 80 feet of boom will tip over. JLG just made it easy to test the system for proper working order. The operators manual will tell you how to do this test. :)
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
9
Location
pittsburgh pa
Willie59,
Well I got the joystick in and did not put it in. I started the machine and it was working. I went about 40 feet and it stopped. I reached down on the cable under the basket and shook the wires while pressing down on the forward of the joystick and it started to move again. I hate those green gremlins where there is a short in a wire but that is what it was. Glad the company took back the joystick as it saved me $260.00. Thank goodness I never installed it as they may not have taken it back.
 

willie59

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Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
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Service Manager
Good to hear you found the problem. That area of cable between where it comes out of boom tip and goes to platform is a common area of cable damage. If you have any other questions, please ask. Now, test that boom safety system and let me know how it works out, I'm curious ya know. :)
 
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